ZDDP (zinc) 1FZ-FE Requirements and Warning RotellaT T6 Cat's (1 Viewer)

[landtoy80]

Does the 1FZ-FE motor require any amount of zinc or ZDDP?

I was thinking that it was the ZDDP/zinc in the RotellaT and T6 oils that was contaminating the cat's and MAYBE the O2's via oil consumption. I sent an email to Shell and got a reply:

Dear Sir,

If you are using oil between oil changes (consumption), then you can shorten the life of a catalytic converter which is the result of the ZDDP additive contaminating the catalyst. It is for this reason that we do not recommend using Rotella oils in gasoline engines with catalytic converters.
There is no way I am aware of to remove the conatmination once it is attached to the catalyst.

Regards,
Shell Technical

I have recommended the use of Rotella T and T6 syn 5w40 in the past. I have been using it in my 80 for not quite 200,000 miles. My cats need to be replaced (do to emissions testing) and I have gone through several O2's (which may or may not been a result of ZDDP oil contamination) that will need to be replaced to pass emissions test. (I am running with out O2's at this time)

I am posting this to:
1) Ask if ZDDP is required or recommended in the oil of the 1FZFE?
2) Let others know they MAY be damaging their CATS and or O2's (If they even care) with use of oils that have ZDDP in them if they have oil consumption while using oil containing ZDDP .
3) Find out if the use of ZDDP, to prolong engine life, is worth the cost of damaged smog parts?

 

[NLXTACY]

Smog stuff is cheap. Motors aren't.

I don't use Rotella but I have been using the Mobile 1 5w-40 Diesel Synth oil.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx

 

[landtoy80]

I have no idea if oil containing ZDDP is the reason I have 411,000 miles but I see no reason to stop using it.
My 80 runs very will with contaminated cats and disabled O2's.

 

[landtoy80]

1. Per Valvoline:
2. Why is it important to have the zinc/phosphorus levels in motor oil changed?
   
   With ever increasing limits on emissions, automobile manufacturers have tightened emission control systems on newer vehicles. This is one of several factors considered when the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets standards for motor oil with zinc. The current API standard is SM which replaced the previous SL classification. Because phosphorus can poison a vehicle's emission system, the level of zinc is lower for current motor oil.
   

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Kurt,

I find it interesting that Shell Technical does not recommend it in engines (gasoline) that have catalytic converters. What about diesel engines that have catalytic converters? Wouldn't that be the same? The type of fuel should not matter.

We replaced our cats on the 92 for the first time at 350K for performance/MPG reasons and found nothing wrong. I have always used Rotella conventional btw. I thought they would be partially clogged up but they were completely clean all the way through.

I am now using Napa synthetic for 3.79 qt (on sale now) in the 3FE with hopes of helping the HP. Now I'm starting to wonder if the Napa synthetic has enough ZDDP to protect the 3FE.

Opinions?


Steve

 

[pkt1213]

Does Rotella have ZDDP in it? I VR1 in old Porsches specifically because it had zinc at a reasonable price.

 

[landtoy80]

I assume that the cats on a diesel are different from a gas cat. I know the newer diesel emissions have a diesel particulate filter, which may or may not be what some call a diesel cat. The filter does what it says, filters out particulates then when its full, it needs to be burned off, called regen or regeneration. It happens either while driving or you have to stop and park, turn on the regen and wait as the motor reves up and the filter gets real real hot to burn off all the particulates. I ASSUME again that the heat is hotter than what a cats gets so everything is burned off.
The new diesel motors also have a fluid that is called DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) , aqueous urea solution (pig piss, from what I was told). Guess the fluid lubes the muffles bearings???

I am sure thats why Shell came out with T6. I had thought a year or two before T6 came out that Shell changed the formula of the T 5w40 to comply with the new diesel motors but I have no data to prove that.

 

[freshspecbluegt]

The tech says don't use it in gasoline engines but the labeling for Rotella T6 says it meets API SM, SL, and SH standards for passenger car engine oils.

If you went 400,000 miles before your cats went bad and ran Rotella for 200,000 miles I would assume it is a safe engine oil run. Your mileage is probably way outside the design spec for the original cats (Federal warranty is only 80,000).

ZDDP can cause damage to the cats if you are burning tons of oil, but if you're burning tons of oil you're sending all types of other stuff into the catalyst that can reduce the efficiency as well.

I run Rotella T6 and will continue to run it.

 

[landtoy80]

T6 5w40 Zinc alkyl dithiophosphate 5.00%

Not sure what the old T 5w40 zinc % was.

 

[e9999]

IIRC, the T6 lacks some of the "energy-efficient" (i.e. friction reducers?) additives, which is why it's usable in wet clutch motorcycles. So I'd be wondering if it's best for mpg etc.

 

[maxamillion2345]

I don't think toyota specs ZDDP for your 1FZ. I'd think the only reason not is for emissions reasons, as stated.

Diesel Particulate Filters are different from Cats. Selective Catalyst Reduction (DEF/urea) is different from the DPF system, and has to do with reducing NOX. And SCR is also different than normal catalytic converters.

 

[footrat]

Agreed. As sort of said above, diesels use the DPF/regen system to catch the "soot" in the exhaust and then burn it out of the filter. They use DEF to react with exhaust gases to turn certain more harmful gases into carbon dioxide and water.

I have been told that you can breathe the exhaust from the newest diesel motors without harmful effects. I don't want to test it. It smells funny, too.