Won't start. Charcoal cannister? (1 Viewer)

[paulj]

My '76 FJ 40 has been running rough and smelling like gasoline for some time. Finally the smell got real bad and I found a fuel leak in the line that runs to the charcoal canister. I replaced all the lines with new ones, but now the truck won't start. It acts like a car after it's run out of gas. I took off the air filter, and dribbled a little gas into the carb, and it will run for a few seconds, and then dies. If I keep dripping gas into the carb it will keep running, but it won't run on its own. I've done this about 30 times, but can't get it to keep running. The truck was running when it was leaking fuel, so it's not an issue with the fuel pump, the filter, or lines that to and from those items. The lines and filter were replaced a few month ago, and are fine. Why was there gas leaking out of the line that goes to the charcoal canister? I though it was only supposed to handle fumes. One of the lines I replaced had a right angle bend in it, and I couldn't put in a new piece of line without it crimping. I added a plastic tee that I got from a hardware store (see photo), but it has a smaller diameter than the 5/8" line. See drawing. Could that be why it won't run? What is the purpose of all those lines, and what is the purpose of the metal fitting the 5/8" line runs to and from? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[AdamKFarmer]

In my opinion it isn't wise to discount something without checking on it first. You say it's not the fuel pump but until you actually check it you wont' be sure. If you just replaced lines in the canister it shouldn't matter at all. Do you have a vented gas cap? Sounds kind of like you sealed the leak and now the system needs to vent some where. Try loosening the gas cap a few turns and cranking it.

 

[paulj]

Oops! Sorry about the drawing. Try this one.

 

[paulj]

Oops, again. I never could use my wife's computer very well.

 

[paulj]

I took the gas cap off when I tried to start it, and it didn't help. How do you check the fuel pump? Do you disconnect the line that runs from it and see if it squirts out gas when you crank the engine?

 

[AdamKFarmer]

I took the gas cap off when I tried to start it, and it didn't help. How do you check the fuel pump? Do you disconnect the line that runs from it and see if it squirts out gas when you crank the engine?

That is one way, what is the little sight glass on the carb telling you? It should be filled about halfway up the window.

 

[paulj]

I can see no fuel inside of sight glass. Does that mean for sure that the fuel pump is not working? It would seem a nearly impossible coincidence that the fuel pump would stop working the exact same time that I changed out the lines to the canister. I checked the lines to and from the canister to those in a working FJ 60, and I put them on correctly.

 

[kruisinkid]

remove the hose leaving the canister heading toward the intake and just let it vent to atmosphere. what happens then? vapor lock? dead canister? you nudged an old fuel line too hard and and now have debris clogging the carb? fuel filter clogged?

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Two things: most plastics won't hold up to gasoline. Nylon is ok. Make sure you're using the right type.

Second, you're not getting gas to the carb bowl. There's a half dozen things it could be. Carb needle valve or prescreen, fuel line clogged, fuel pump, fuel filter. You can't rule anything out. It was running rough before and clogs can happen in minutes. You very well could have had two problems. Leaky gas lines to the canister and something else. Start by changing the fuel filter to a clear inline one. Cost $3 and takes 5 minutes. This will eliminate the filter as a possible problem and will help you see what's going on.

Then disconnect the fuel line somewhere between the fuel pump and the carb and see if you've got flow there. That will tell you if the problem is in the carb or outside it. Then disconnect the fuel feed line to the fuel pump and connect it to a tank of gas and see if that fixes it. This kind of diagnostics will help you figure out where the problem is located.

 

[paulj]

Thanks all for your input. I have a couple of questions to your responses.

Kruisinkid; Which line goes to the intake, the 1/2" line or the 3/8" one?

edwjmcgrath? I will systematically check everything leading to the carb. I fairly recently changed the 1/2" lines leading to and from the filter as well as the filter itself, but will check them and replace the filter. If I undo one of the metal lines such as the one leading to the carb, is there anything special I should do to re-attach it? Does it need some kind of sealant on the threads, or does it just screw back in?

 

[edwjmcgrath]

No sealant needed on fuel line connections.

Also that larger hose that bends is still available from toyota. 95331-06028
Edit: Maybe. The stock canister has two hoses on top and one on the bottom. Different from your picture.

 

[JohnnyC]

screw it back it thats it

sounds like pump went to me...

also sounds like you have been toping off your tank and it backed up all the way to your CC... it builds up over time... if you find that it is infact the fuel pump.... i would disconect the lines and get all that gas out

 

[AdamKFarmer]

I can see no fuel inside of sight glass. Does that mean for sure that the fuel pump is not working? It would seem a nearly impossible coincidence that the fuel pump would stop working the exact same time that I changed out the lines to the canister. I checked the lines to and from the canister to those in a working FJ 60, and I put them on correctly.

Well, I always try to apply Occam's Razor to these situations. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Just because it's a coincidence doesn't mean it's not true. If you have no fuel in your bowl after trying to crank it almost surely points to the fuel pump and/or lines. I would look into betting an emissions manual or something that would explain the exact wiring or hose routing for your canister.

 

[paulj]

Edwjmcgrath; The lines running in and out of the canister are the same setup as found in an FJ 60. It's quite possible that PO did that.

 

[AdamKFarmer]

Has your '76 been modified? Is it Cali or Fed spec? Here is a thread about '76 Fed emissions. https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/510333-emissions-manual-2.html I don't think you have the same setup as an FJ60 as you 1) don't have the right carb 2) No outer vent control valve.
Scroll down a little bit on this thread as well to get Jim's input on the hoses on the canister for what looks like your year. https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/460078-hooking-up-charcoal-canister-fuel-seperater.html I don't see anything that would prevent your pump from pumping gas to the carb.

 

[igotta40]

" It acts like a car after it's run out of gas."

...That could be your problem.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

" It acts like a car after it's run out of gas."

...That could be your problem.

The ironic part is that happened to me TODAY. Driving down the highway and it starts bucking. I hit the clutch and it idles ok, then it stalls. I pull over and open the hood and check the carb window-no gas. I can't be out of gas, I had 1/8 tank about 30 miles ago. What's the gauge say? Oh crap.

 

[paulj]

I put 2 gallons in today. It still won't run unless you drip gas into the carb. I took all those hoses off that run to and from the canister, but that doesn't help either, nor does taking the gas cap off. I haven't had time to check the lines leading to and from the fuel pump, but I got out my 2F engine manual and read up on how to test the pump itself, which I hope to do this weekend. One good thing is that Toyota of Dallas has the 5//8" rubber L-shaped hose that comes out of the canister, so I don't have to use that setup with the nylon elbow. It's amazing how much they charge for a 3" piece of rubber hose with a bend in it, but if that fixes it, I won't complain.

 

[paulj]

Adam; The only modification done to the engine is that it has been de-smogged. I don't think it's a California spec model. If owned it for about 15 years, and it's run pretty well until recently.

 

[numby]

Also that larger hose that bends is still available from toyota. 95331-06028
Edit: Maybe. The stock canister has two hoses on top and one on the bottom. Different from your picture.

Uh, no. '78 models have three on top and one below that is only a drain of sorts. The largest hose with the right angle bend is probably still available from the dealer so you could get rid of the "T".

As others have pointed out your symptoms are similar to running out of fuel. If your gauge or sending unit are still accurate maybe you crossed a couple of the lines when you did the repairs? On 78s the "to tank" hard line from the canister to the fuel tank takes a crazy route around the underside of the floor pan and then up to the vapor separator behind the passenger seat. The lines to the fuel tank are pretty close by. That might explain the fuel in your vapor lines unless you're habitually over-filling the tank or something? Just throwing some stuff out there.

Almost ran iut of fuel myself yesterday. The truck started to buck a little. Then I looked at the guage...