Wonder If removed ABS hurts the value of the FJZ80 Land Cruisers

[Grandlooser]

There are many 80's without ABS. I'm actually thinking worldwide there are more non ABS than ABS 80's? I'm fine being corrected there. Some people like a diesel when it didn't come with one as well. Nothing wrong with ( again, functionally, not legally) opting for a system that Toyota themselves saw as sufficient to equip in these very vehicles. That system being non ABS brakes. As far as benefit, maybe you shouldn't knock it till you try it.🙂

It also frees up acres of room when under-hood room is expensive real estate.

 

[Heckraiser]

Not really fair to compare the ABS system on a 2020 Focus ST to the ABS system on a 1995 Toyota Land Barge (though the driving techniques still apply).

IMO, insurance, and the legal system in the USA in general, is way to biased against people accepting the risk inherent in what they're doing. In order to renew my ski pass every year, I have to sign a waiver that says if I die, or am injured or maimed, I assume all responsibility simply by choosing to engage in a dangerous activity.

 

[baldilocks]

What's always strange to me reading these threads is that ABS is almost always removed when a braking issue presents itself. Instead of resolving the braking issue, the owner removes the entire system. I'm unsure as to why more people don't diagnose and solve the braking issue first. There hasn't been compelling (any) evidence to suggest a properly functioning brake system without ABS actually operates BETTER than a properly functioning brake system with ABS.

With out lawyers ABS would have never taken off in the world of automobiles. Jet aircraft absolutely need it not only to avoid sliding off a slippery runway on landing but also, and more so, to avoid wearing through tires instantly on touch down. When an anti skid speed module fails the tire on that axle has a certain and speedy death sentence.

Complicated systems are just that, complicated and complicated never means better. ABS pumps wear out and new ones, if available, are very expensive.

I learned how to drive before ABS and drove in some hairy, melting ice situations as a teenager. It just takes common sense and driving according to the conditions and the capability of the vehicle. Paying attention to the road before us comes before ABS which is a backup for mistakes.

 

[jaymar]

What's always strange to me reading these threads is that ABS is almost always removed when a braking issue presents itself. Instead of resolving the braking issue, the owner removes the entire system. I'm unsure as to why more people don't diagnose and solve the braking issue first. There hasn't been compelling (any) evidence to suggest a properly functioning brake system without ABS actually operates BETTER than a properly functioning brake system with ABS.

Saw a post by someone saying, add giant tires and a thousand pounds, gripe that it doesn't stop like it used to., add a lift and more weight, gripe some more and remove the quarter-century-old ABS instead of actually refreshing or replacing it...

Now, Jonathan Ward makes a good point in that if you're going to play around offroad precipices, having an automated system decide when to (and when not to) apply braking power is perhaps not the best idea. But in that case, do what he does: go older (non-ABS) and hydroboost.

 

[jaymar]

There are many 80's without ABS. I'm actually thinking worldwide there are more non ABS than ABS 80's? I'm fine being corrected there. Some people like a diesel when it didn't come with one as well. Nothing wrong with ( again, functionally, not legally) opting for a system that Toyota themselves saw as sufficient to equip in these very vehicles. That system being non ABS brakes. As far as benefit, maybe you shouldn't knock it till you try it.🙂

It also frees up acres of room when under-hood room is expensive real estate.

Yeah, but as time went on, they improved the safety systems. Can you see making the same argument about removing the airbag in a 95-97? Or, to stretch a point, the seat belts in a post-Nader car? Everything on a Ford that didn't come oem Model A? Or how about the modification that prevented the Pinto from exploding when tapped on the butt? After all, Ford itself thought the previous measures were okay. Same with the GM bonfires--and now the Chevy Volts you gotta park outside (and not charge overnight) because they might spontaneously combust and burn your house down...

 

[baldilocks]

Yeah, but as time went on, they improved the safety systems. Can you see making the same argument about removing the airbag in a 95-97? Or, to stretch a point, the seat belts in a post-Nader car? Everything on a Ford that didn't come oem Model A? Or how about the modification that prevented the Pinto from exploding when tapped on the butt? After all, Ford itself thought the previous measures were okay. Same with the GM bonfires--and now the Chevy Volts you gotta park outside (and not charge overnight) because they might spontaneously combust and burn your house down...

Lawyers

 

[Grandlooser]

Can you see making the same argument

Yes. Don't question my ability to argue. Especially on the topic of vehicular denancyfications. 😉

 

[Nemesis1207]

In my opinion, ABS is better on-road. Non-ABS is better off-road. I'm happy my 80 came without ABS. That said, if I had one that came with factory ABS, I wouldn't be removing it, nor could I do that legally in this country (Australia) under any circumstances.

Everyone makes their own decisions, and from a technical perspective, the 80 can work perfectly well without ABS, if it's removed properly. From a legal perspective, there's risk. The risk here is if you crash into a Lamborghini, the insurance company refuses to cover you, and you literally lose your house and everything you own. That's too much risk for me to accept, so I wouldn't risk removing ABS. Other people will have their own idea of acceptable risk.

 

[jaymar]

In my opinion, ABS is better on-road. Non-ABS is better off-road. I'm happy my 80 came without ABS. That said, if I had one that came with factory ABS, I wouldn't be removing it, nor could I do that legally in this country (Australia) under any circumstances.

Everyone makes their own decisions, and from a technical perspective, the 80 can work perfectly well without ABS, if it's removed properly. From a legal perspective, there's risk. The risk here is if you crash into a Lamborghini, the insurance company refuses to cover you, and you literally lose your house and everything you own. That's too much risk for me to accept, so I wouldn't risk removing ABS. Other people will have their own idea of acceptable risk.

Or you couldn't stop for that kid who ran into the street chasing a ball. Won't matter if it wouldn't have stopped in time with ABS either; if you deleted it, you're toast...

 

[Grandlooser]

Tomorrow I solve this issue for good. I'm taking my removed ABS unit, mounting it to my mill table and machining the damn thing hollow. Then simply running short sections of hard line inside the unit to the outlet ports. Voila! Stock ABS for the insurance folks to see but without the functionality!

 

[Broski]

Or you could just stop driving and remove all risk !!!!!!!!!!

Let the thread die !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jaymar]

Tomorrow I solve this issue for good. I'm taking my removed ABS unit, mounting it to my mill table and machining the damn thing hollow. Then simply running short sections of hard line inside the unit to the outlet ports. Voila! Stock ABS for the insurance folks to see but without the functionality!

 

[jaymar]

Or you could just stop driving and remove all risk !!!!!!!!!!

Let the thread die !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gas prices keep going up, that could be an option...

 

[1973Guppie]

How much is a car that won’t stop worth? It’s a proven fact that as they age our brake systems suffer lesser and lesser performance and removing all that extra plumbing, thus simplifying the system, produces a firmer pedal that doesn’t sink to the floor before any appreciable stopping power is felt.

Build “your” 80 into what you will enjoy regardless of what some first time buyer who hasn’t a clue thinks your rig is worth. If you are an 80 flipper then removing anything factory was a mistake.

This. I use the crap out of my 80. It is dented and modded and I love it. The payout I get is in the memories with my kids it brings. One day I will sell it for next to nothing I am sure and I am ok with that.

 

[VivaToy]

Still, no one has an answer to a properly functioning ABS vs. properly functioning without ABS. Lots of "back in my day" spew, but that's not logic.

Also don't understand the logic of people arguing safety measures are only for lawyers. They're actually for saving people's lives.

I've had a change of heart. I think I'll remove the seatbelts (screw Nader), airbags (screw lawyers), power steering pump (manual handles better), and convert to manual brakes (vacuum assist? hit the gym). Everything added to cars after 1967 is just for lawyers and sissies. And if I die, hey, I want to die in my 80. In fact, I hope they'll just leave me in it and drop the whole thing in the ground.

 

[jaymar]

One day I will sell it for next to nothing I am sure and I am ok with that.

95-97? Maybe give me a jingle when that day comes...

 

[AussieHJCruza]

This is one advantage of the over-legislation of things in Australia. Removing the ABS system from a car here would make it no longer road worthy. It wouldn't pass yearly inspection, and I couldn't insure it or register it to drive on the roads until it was rectified. Simply put, safety features that were provided on a vehicle at the time of manufacture must be present and working. It doesn't matter if they were optional. Likewise, safety features which weren't present at the time of manufacture don't need to be added. I can drive a vintage car with no seatbelts at 110km/h on the highway, no problem. For a modern vehicle though, I need to make sure the seatbelts, ABS, airbags, etc are all working correctly to the best of my knowledge, and in most states, I need to get a yearly inspection by a mechanic to specifically look for problems that aren't immediately evident. This makes the situation very clear, there isn't much grey area.

Insurance companies don't care about accuracy or truth, they care about making money and keeping that money. If they can find a technicality to justify not handing over a big wad of cash, they'll do it. I actually appreciate the laws here being explicit in this area, as you know where you stand with pretty much any modification, even if most of the rules are arbitrary and downright silly in some cases.

Spot on, we had a battle with insurance over a ute that had a decent amount of lift and 35s on it. Was all engineered and registered with the mods, but if insurance could have found something that wasn't quite to the book, they would have told us to walk, and they had a red hot go at it!

 

[60wag]

The ABS shuts off in low range. I'm a bit surprised that no-one has created a mod for a manual switch to make that on/off function at the whim of the driver, something like the never-ending 7-pin mod and the center diff.

 

[baldilocks]

This. I use the crap out of my 80. It is dented and modded and I love it. The payout I get is in the memories with my kids it brings. One day I will sell it for next to nothing I am sure and I am ok with that.

This reads as if I wrote it myself.

 

[rebelcruiser]

"Still, no one has an answer to a properly functioning ABS vs. properly functioning without ABS. Lots of "back in my day" spew, but that's not logic.

Also don't understand the logic of people arguing safety measures are only for lawyers. They're actually for saving people's lives."






Well bring your ABSed 80 and we'll disable the ABS on my 80 and I'll show you that I can drive and stop better than you. Until then you are spewing.