Wonder If removed ABS hurts the value of the FJZ80 Land Cruisers (1 Viewer)

[z531519]

it will hurt the value for most prospective buyer. Even if the buyer would eventually remove it, they'd probably use it to bargain the price down.

I removed my LSPV, but still have ABS. My ABS works fine but when it's time for it to go, i have no issues removing it. My 80s market value has been sinking continuously and that hasn't bothered me -- only that my brakes work!

 

[1973Guppie]

95-97? Maybe give me a jingle when that day comes...

OK, I hope you like cleaning out goldfish and other kid food from under the seats.

 

[jaymar]

OK, I hope you like cleaning out goldfish and other kid food from under the seats.

Don't forget, now...

 

[jaymar]

Still, no one has an answer to a properly functioning ABS vs. properly functioning without ABS. Lots of "back in my day" spew, but that's not logic.

Also don't understand the logic of people arguing safety measures are only for lawyers. They're actually for saving people's lives.

I've had a change of heart. I think I'll remove the seatbelts (screw Nader), airbags (screw lawyers), power steering pump (manual handles better), and convert to manual brakes (vacuum assist? hit the gym). Everything added to cars after 1967 is just for lawyers and sissies. And if I die, hey, I want to die in my 80. In fact, I hope they'll just leave me in it and drop the whole thing in the ground.

"And if I die, hey, I want to die in my 80. In fact, I hope they'll just leave me in it and drop the whole thing in the ground."

Funny, I once heard someone else say pretty much the same thing. But I see he's already checked in...

 

[SNLC]

All this lawyer talk.


I have had a number of insurance claims over the years, I am sure many of you have too. They have hardly ever looked over the vehicle closely. They come out with their clip board and go oh ya, there is a dent there or there is a busted mirror here. I go get estimates from whomever I want after that and submit those estimates to the insurance company.

Then they argue payout, give me options, I make up my mind and take whichever option I want. I then get a check and don't fix the dents and buy new lift and tires!

Granted nobody was ever injured in these claims but that is my experience with four claims in about 20yrs.

Cheers

 

[Grandlooser]

Having worked in auto body I never saw anyone come and do forensics on a car that was crashed. Injury or not. I'm sure it happens, but for that to be where you place anxiety?...

I thinking if it weighs that heavily on your mind then off road rigs may not be the right thing for someone. Instead study crash and safety test results and buy a new vehicle accordingly.

 

[Woofythewolf]

"Still, no one has an answer to a properly functioning ABS vs. properly functioning without ABS. Lots of "back in my day" spew, but that's not logic.

Also don't understand the logic of people arguing safety measures are only for lawyers. They're actually for saving people's lives."






Well bring your ABSed 80 and we'll disable the ABS on my 80 and I'll show you that I can drive and stop better than you. Until then you are spewing.

I would be totally down (and also a maneuvering while braking competition too) except I'm a thousand miles away. If anyone local wants to compare I'd be glad too, I love hard numbers.
Can even load up the back of mine (it's nearly stock) to make sure it's a fair competition with lots of added weight.

Maybe there's someone more local to me?

 

[SmokingRocks]

correctly applying the brake up to but not over the lock up threshold manually will always stop in a shorter distance than a full ABS stop. Likewise, if the driver has enough skill to manage this then they will also likely be able to maneuver just as well if not better than the same driver who has planted the brake pedal to the floor and is relying on ABS. It's a skill called threshold braking and was born in the road racing world fortunately now is trickling down to many quality new-age driver ed programs, which is good.

It's simple physics, a rotating tire will have a higher available coefficient of friction than a skidding one. ABS quickly pulses the brake pressure to provide rapid transitions between FULL LOCK UP - Free Spin and back to FULL LOCK UP for the sole reason being to allow the driver to have some ability to steer (albeit vastly reduced). When the tire is locked up it doesn't have as high of a friction coefficient as if it were still rotating yet right at the limit (holding a non-ABS brake pedal just to the point before lockup).

Now with that said, it's not a skill many people have, even those who think they do. Ask any driver, I bet 9 out of 10 of them will expand on how good of a driver they are yet if you rode with them you'd notice all sorts of flaws. (Most common flaw is not looking as far ahead as possible, this results in the accordion-style slowdowns we hit all the time on the interstates)

So, I am by no means an expert but I do have some advanced levels of training/accreditations which I've accumulated over years of racing, being a race instructor, off roading etc, I will say that when that ball bounces out into the road with a kid in hot pursuit 98% of the drivers out there will attempt to mate the brake pedal with the firewall and wont let off till the rig stops. Threshold braking takes consistent repetitive practice and continual adjustment / revised inputs based on feel/sound/need. So unless you are one of that 2% of people then assume that when something bad happens in front of you that you're just going to push the stop pedal as hard as you possibly can, because that's the likely outcome.

And this comes from a guy who deleted his ABS & LSPV, I went into it eyes wide open and my insurance company knows that my rig no longer has ABS.

 

[jaymar]

Having worked in auto body I never saw anyone come and do forensics on a car that was crashed. Injury or not. I'm sure it happens, but for that to be where you place anxiety?...

I thinking if it weighs that heavily on your mind then off road rigs may not be the right thing for someone. Instead study crash and safety test results and buy a new vehicle accordingly.

Yeah, now insurance companies may be different (and--being cheap--may not), but when I got in a head-on hit-and-run that totaled my previous SUV, I offered busted light fragments and paint scrapings to the LAPD detective on the case. Also the locations of nearby security cameras. Turns out they don't have the manpower to go around asking for the video, and they don't have the capability to match anything unless they're standing beside the suspect's car and a piece of busted something fits into a same-shaped hole.

Now, they did send some stuff off to the FBI lab in another hit-and-run where someone died. And the FBI was kind enough to run that and send back the results. Six. Years. Later. I kid you not. This ain't Hollywood. (Well, it literally is, but you know what I mean...)

Found the video myself, found the suspect's car myself. Same night. LAPD literally had no way to even accept it until a detective was assigned the following week. It all worked out and put me in a Cruiser. So now I drive a tank because, physics.

Are insurance companies any more capable? Maybe; it's their money on the line. Well, actually it's our money, but...

On the other hand, I once passed a billionaire 20-something in a supercar (it was standing still), and feel fairly certain that any collision with that would have drawn, shall we say, above-average scrutiny. Point being, you never know what's coming your way, and it can't hurt to have all parts present and in working order...

 

[Woofythewolf]

correctly applying the brake up to but not over the lock up threshold manually will always stop in a shorter distance than a full ABS stop. Likewise, if the driver has enough skill to manage this then they will also likely be able to maneuver just as well if not better than the same driver who has planted the brake pedal to the floor and is relying on ABS. It's a skill called threshold braking and was born in the road racing world fortunately now is trickling down to many quality new-age driver ed programs, which is good.

It's simple physics, a rotating tire will have a higher available coefficient of friction than a skidding one. ABS quickly pulses the brake pressure to provide rapid transitions between FULL LOCK UP - Free Spin and back to FULL LOCK UP for the sole reason being to allow the driver to have some ability to steer (albeit vastly reduced). When the tire is locked up it doesn't have as high of a friction coefficient as if it were still rotating yet right at the limit (holding a non-ABS brake pedal just to the point before lockup).

Now with that said, it's not a skill many people have, even those who think they do. Ask any driver, I bet 9 out of 10 of them will expand on how good of a driver they are yet if you rode with them you'd notice all sorts of flaws. (Most common flaw is not looking as far ahead as possible, this results in the accordion-style slowdowns we hit all the time on the interstates)

So, I am by no means an expert but I do have some advanced levels of training/accreditations which I've accumulated over years of racing, being a race instructor, off roading etc, I will say that when that ball bounces out into the road with a kid in hot pursuit 98% of the drivers out there will attempt to mate the brake pedal with the firewall and wont let off till the rig stops. Threshold braking takes consistent repetitive practice and continual adjustment / revised inputs based on feel/sound/need. So unless you are one of that 2% of people then assume that when something bad happens in front of you that you're just going to push the stop pedal as hard as you possibly can, because that's the likely outcome.

And this comes from a guy who deleted his ABS & LSPV, I went into it eyes wide open and my insurance company knows that my rig no longer has ABS.

Yeah, this is my exact look on it.
Many people do some practice braking (maybe) in a parking lot and think they don't need ABS anymore.

Reality is very different, it takes lots of practice to getting used to using those skills at speed and/or in a situation where you're trying to do so many other things like looking for an escape avenue that isn't going to kill someone else.

In a controlled test environment on a concrete skidpad, sure I can threshold brake. It helps that my tires are VERY audible when they start to reach that threshold. But in a panic manslaughter situation? I have zero confidence that I or 98% of people on the road without extensive track experience could do so.

That said, threshold braking seems much easier with big tires than on a drift car.

 

[SmokingRocks]

That said, threshold braking seems much easier with big tires than on a drift car.

it is, especially when the brakes weren't sized for them. This, in conjunction with my experiance, is why I opted out of the ABS.

 

[SNLC]

Using your transmission to help slow you down helps immensely, even with an auto.


A lot of people put it in drive and leave it there, never shifting. They press the go and stop pedal and thats it. Same kind of people freak out when you pass them. Tapping brakes is also important on slick stuff and even not slick, keeps from locking up or engaging the ABS and keeps the brakes cooler.

I used to live in Jackson, Wyoming and drove Teton Pass regularly. So many people just stand on their brakes all the way down that pass. It’s so bad during tourist season the town of Wilson at the bottom of the pass reeks like burning brakes all summer long. I could easily come down that pass in 2nd tapping my brakes and not go over 40-45mph.


Cheers