Winch for the HJ (1 Viewer)

[daniel.watters]

I think OEM pto's have the cool factor there. I am even considering putting mine on my hj47. From different things that I've read, they're are several disadvantages with OEM. so, unless you are going to seriously wheel yours, OEM is a choice.

while on the subject, the pto I got came off of a 67 fj45 with a three speed.... what do I have to do to mate it up with an h41? Thanks!

 

[crushers]

drive gear
proper PTO drive box, the one from the 3 speed t/case MIGHT fit.
the drive shafts will have to be modified

if i was going to run the PTO winch then i would want EASY access to the shear pin FROM ABOVE the winch area. the way it is now you have to crawl under the vehicle to change out the shear pin.

now if they made a PTO winch with electric motor back-up on the other end ... well ... that would be the best of all worlds.

biggest problem is when the shear pin shears then you have to be able to release tension off the cable ... which is almost impossible since with the shear pin gone you can not back out or gear in.

in principle i like them but in the real world application ... i don't.

 

[LZ_Pan]

here we go again... few simple facts:
for how long will your electric winch last when your engine stops? pto advantage - you can use the starter motor with stalled engine probably longer then electric winch thus making your pto into part-time electric winch anyway.
for how long can you winch at full load before you need to allow your electric to cool down? pto advantage - 100% duty cycle at full load. with proper use of snatch block there is no way you can break your shear pin. upgrade them anyhow if you want.
what happens when engine stalled, flat batteries and need winching? pto advantage - simple lever attachment allows you to use it as a hand winch.
what happens when your nose deep in muck electric winch below surface? pto advantage - ask someone that now cares? its fully submersible.
PTO's only 2 disadvantage i can think of are: it can be very dangerous as you don't have much control once outside cab. never ever leave the CAB when winching! and you need proper understanding of how it works.
but this is no place to argue about what's better as PTO wins hands down, still any winch is better then none and 8274 is a awesome piece of gear, easily 2nd best after original PTO which looks best on any 40.

 

[crushers]

here we go again... few simple facts:
for how long will your electric winch last when your engine stops? pto advantage - you can use the starter motor with stalled engine probably longer then electric winch thus making your pto into part-time electric winch anyway.
if your batteries are flat from winching when engine is dead, EXACTLY how do you have enough electricity to run a starter? a starter is designed to crank for a few seconds, a winch motor, although it LOOKS like a starter motor, is designed to run much much longer than a starter motor. (you have heard the expression "damn, i burnt out my starter" right?)

for how long can you winch at full load before you need to allow your electric to cool down? pto advantage - 100% duty cycle at full load. with proper use of snatch block there is no way you can break your shear pin. upgrade them anyhow if you want.
agreed, i have yet to actually SEE anyone use a snatch block with a PTO plus, if you use a snatch block with an electric then you are removing a ton of load and you can winch much longer before any heat is generated.

what happens when engine stalled, flat batteries and need winching? pto advantage - simple lever attachment allows you to use it as a hand winch.
interesting, got a pic or a link? have you actually tried this advice? i am interested in seeing how long that lever has to be to move a 5000 lb vehicle stuck so bad it shears the pin with NO GEAR reduction.

what happens when your nose deep in muck electric winch below surface? pto advantage - ask someone that now cares? its fully submersible. have you ever used an 8274 under water? if not then best give it a try before this part of the post is true.

PTO's only 2 disadvantage i can think of are: it can be very dangerous as you don't have much control once outside cab. never ever leave the CAB when winching! and you need proper understanding of how it works.
lets see, if i run an electric i can watch what is happening outside the truck as i carefully winch the vehicle along. PTO, i need a spotter (who is now in a dangerous location) or GUESS what is happening as the winch cable comes in.
with an electric i have a choice of where i want to be situated, with a PTO i have to be in the cab.

but this is no place to argue (actually, this is a perfect place to discuss it) about what's better as PTO wins hands down, still any winch is better then none and 8274 is a awesome piece of gear, easily 2nd best after original PTO which looks best on any 40.
in reality, the PTO is second or third place in the list of best winches to save your ass when you are in trouble. the PTO looks okay on the front of a 40.

further discussion:
a PTO relies on U/joints, pillow blocks, drive gears, shear pin all which wear over time, even if just sitting as the vehicle is used in mud, water, sand, dusty condition in everyday use. how many actually crawl under their vehicle to check the condition of the parts?
electric, before a run you operate for a couple seconds to make sure the selenoids will be working for you and off you go.

sorry, a PTO MIGHT be a good winch in your situation and useage but i would rather have the reliablity, strength and simplicity of the 8274.

oh, and finally, a PTO hampers the approach angle on the 70 and 60 series vehicles. it becomes a plow so the winch gets filled with mud, snow, ice etc. the 8274 is not restricted by driveshafts so it can be located anywhere you wish to install it.

 

[blis]

*snip*

further discussion:
a PTO relies on U/joints, pillow blocks, drive gears, shear pin all which wear over time, even if just sitting as the vehicle is used in mud, water, sand, dusty condition in everyday use. how many actually crawl under their vehicle to check the condition of the parts?
electric, before a run you operate for a couple seconds to make sure the selenoids will be working for you and off you go.

sorry, a PTO MIGHT be a good winch in your situation and useage but i would rather have the reliablity, strength and simplicity of the 8274.

oh, and finally, a PTO hampers the approach angle on the 70 and 60 series vehicles. it becomes a plow so the winch gets filled with mud, snow, ice etc. the 8274 is not restricted by driveshafts so it can be located anywhere you wish to install it.

Actually i think my approach angle got better when i removed the standard bumper and built a new one that houses the pto winch on my hj61, also now i have sturdy bumper that will never break offroad no matter what you hit with it, also it protects my lights and front of the hood nicely...

The picture doesnt tell the whole truth since that bumper is situated on top of frame, instead of sitting on same level...

 

[Radd Cruisers]

I have both PTOs and Electrics, and with a 24V electrical system there is very little advantage to a PTO unless you are using your winch a LOT - I spent all day (like 6+ hours) being the winch bitch at a poker run years ago. I pulled many vehicles up one section of trail for that whole time, and not once were my batteries of the electric M8274 a problem.

Now, that was with a 1981 BJ42 and it's awesomely powerful 20A alternator. Some of the pulls were long (like 80 feet +) and some were short. I use a snatch block almost the entire time when working with my 8274 - and it's been a solid, reliable winch.

I can see that a PTO is great if you are working with it and have a helper - like on a farm. Or are using it on an expedition where the pulls are long - day in, day out, but for most of us, an electric makes sense. I could also see it being pretty good if you're pulling a Moose off a bog and have to go 800 or 1500 meters and can use the winch like a capstan with the cable removed and want to loop some heavy rope through it.

Each their own. I have used the PTOs somewhat, and the electrics a considerable amount. If you keep your brain about you, the PTO will be pretty darned good - but it is also impossible to judge just how hard it's pulling as there is no indication of load as with an electric.

In the end, I took the PTO off my HJ61 in favour of the M8274 in 24V. I can easily put the PTO winch back on, but I quite like the 8274 and it's easier to use - especially with a wireless remote.


~John

 

[DieselFumes]

This is the EXACT info I have been looking for... THANKS all for the $0.02 input.

My HJ is 12V from QLD, AU

I like the idea of a Toyota PTO (Factory options are the coolest), however, I would rather simplify the install, cost, parts are harder to come by, etc. for the time being in order to get out and use the truck this spring. (Time is a big factor for me, I like my chit to work, and work well.)

I will be looking for used winches to reach the "best" potential for my set-up. I do not mind rebuilding them, and an older winch would look a little better.

Have determined from some of the "Old Lions" on the forum that Wire Cable is sufficient, This will save me some $. This purchase is not one to skimp on when it boils down too it.

Do you want a "SnapOn" wrench that will last a long time and always work or a china wrench that will bend in your hand? Been there done that, just not with winches. Got the point and will now get a quality winch!!!

Next will be the search for one and maybe a rebuild?! THEN USE!!!!!

 

[crushers]

wire cable, been around for decades and works very well.
syn rope, latest greatest dodad. came into the Cruiser world roughly 10 years ago. most posers have it. very few actual wheelers are still using it 10 years later.

steel: tough, resiliant, heavy and can hurt like a bitch when you get them bloody little wires in the fingers or hand. no sympathy for the user.

syn rope: can be cut on sharp edges, light weight, strong, pretty, and what i like is you can throw it across a deep wet muddy hole instead of lugging the steel rope through the mess. never used it so going by what i have seen.

i would probably run syn rope if i wasn't so cheap and careless.

 

[Tapage]

bit late but ..

I recognize warn 8274 as best winch concept and structure ever .. just they need to made it stronger to hold 12 and 15K pounds .. single line.

MAybe I'm just too lazy to add a snatch block to the complicated ecuation of a winch recovery situation ..

 

[subzali]

:hand up:

A lot of people in Rising Sun use synthetic winch rope, and I know some guys that do comps that use it as well, I would disagree with the statement "very few actual wheelers are still using it 10 years later" from what I have seen.

 

[crushers]

maybe i just don't hang with the right crowd??

 

[Radd Cruisers]

:hand up:

A lot of people in Rising Sun use synthetic winch rope, and I know some guys that do comps that use it as well, I would disagree with the statement "very few actual wheelers are still using it 10 years later" from what I have seen.

Very location dependent.

Some areas all you see is synthetic, and in other areas all you see is wire rope.

My winch came with wire rope and it takes a long time to wear out and is cheap to replace. I can buy large skeins of synthetic cheaply enough, but I don't see any real world advantage to running it where I live - it would be subject to a lot of chaffing.

If I had to carry a few 100m as spare rope, it would be synthetic because it's light and very easy to work with.

I also know some Moose hunters who are giving up on their old >1" Samson Braid ship rope in favour of Amsteel (but at great cost). I guess if you have to pull a Moose over 1500m across a peat bog, a light piece of Amsteel is a lot easier to work with than a whole pick up truck load of wet Samson Braid.

I'll eventually put some on my portable winch, just to save the 12kg of wire weight (the Amsteel would come in at 1.2 kg for the same length).



~John

 

[DieselFumes]

Very good winch info still coming.

You will be happy to know that I got a call around 2pm yesterday while working. A buddy was stuck in his F150 4dr on 35" and a Chevy got stuck trying to pulling him out....

6pm rolls around and I was done with work, grab the troopy, case of beer/water for the guys sitting in the woods for hours and my 30k lb strap and head out.

It was the first time I have put the troopy in 4L and also the first time for me to pull someone out in the Troopy. Remember I have a granny first 4 speed. When I let the clutch out and felt the power and a lil tug on the rope, I put her down half throttle and the 362km 2h was chugging all four tires in the mud and plopped him right up on safe ground, yanked the other truck out and "walked through" the hole they got stuck in. They could not believe it cause I have 33" tires and went slow, but what they did not realize is my track width is WAY different than theirs so no matter what line I take I stayed out of their ruts!

A sweet day for the troopy, winch search is in full effect!

The syn rope sounds like a great tool to have in your tool box regardless of winch or not....

 

[SteveH]

I agree with Wayne and others that the PTO is great for farm chores, etc., but changing the broken shear pin a real pain. I have lain on my back in the dirt with a pin punch trying to push out the busted bits of the old pin - and having it break with non-removable tension on the line is a real treat, too. If you installed a larger pin or made it easier to service, it might be more practical. Having said that, a PTO is a blast for hauling firewood out of the woods, pulling stumps, etc.

I have an older 8274 on another truck and after having been a PTO bigot for years, I was astounded at how strong it pulls, with one battery, on my FJ40. Reluctantly, I'd go with an 8274 over a PTO for most purposes.

 

[TLC Norway]

First, i love my PTO. I have upgraded the shear pin to 5mm 8.8 and now its permanent. I use my brains when winching, and snatch when it calls for it.

The input axle on the pto winch goes straight thru the housing, and it has the worm gear.
Therefore its easy to manually operate if engine stalled or shear pin sheared.
Easy to unload the tension on the cable with a plier, and some weld a 17mm nut onto the axle to use as a crank handle operated from the front. works like a charm, and i can easily pull my 60 out of a mess without engine power using this method.

That beeing said, using the pto for short pulls often is not ideal. three levers to operate, four if you like freespooling the beast.
Only once has it let me down, and thats because i cleaned out the rig before the trip, not having shear pins with me. Had to sacrifice a torx wrench to use as a shear pin.

All things considered, i plan to move the PTO for rear pulls, and a 8274 for front pulls.
Must be the ideal setup.

If i were to fit a winch to a rig without, i'd go for a 8274 in a heartbeat.

 

[DieselFumes]

Found one will try to go look tomorrow for $400! About an hour away, and then another nice looking one for $600 5 hrs away....

 

[ForealBoreal]

you could rebuild it for less the 200 bucks I figure.

 

[DieselFumes]

No luck yet, found a warn 15000 for $700... Still lookin for 8274

 

[Chamba]

I have an 8274 on my 40 and an 8274-50 on my troopy. I love both of them, for what it's worth.

I had a 40 with a PTO many moons ago; what a royal pain in the arse that thing was. I agree they look cool, but I would sooner find a J**p to pull me out that use a PTO again.

Great story about the troopy yanking out the pickups - any pics?

Josh

 

[DieselFumes]

This is a patience search.... 8274 deal where are you?
No problem

No pics of the stuck trucks, it was dark around 5:30 here this time of year and a couple inches of standing water puddles everywhere, so I didn't want to chance it with the camera.

I am sure he will do it again. And I'll snap some photos next time.