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Wife said yes for the lift!!!

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by waldrtw, Oct 30, 2003.

  1. waldrtw

    waldrtw

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    The wife finally gave me the ok for putting the lift on the 94 landcruiser. I now have to decide what I want to put on it. I guess I am going with the OME (since it is the only one that really makes a lift). I am thinking about putting the 850J springs up front with the 863 in the rear. I would like to do this combo because I do not like the way the back is so much higher than the front. I feel like I am always sliding off the seat! I am not all stock bumpers and a roof rack. I do plan on getting a arb bumper in the front in a year or so. Can anybody give me some advice on what springs I should get. I do not ever plan on running 35's. But I do want some lift.

    Tim
     
  2. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    [Pet Peeve On]

    Do not raise the front to level the truck unless you address the caster

    [Per Peeve Off]


    Why the J springs? If you are not going to run a bar and winch with some extra's the truck will not drive good. Once of these days I will set one up like that and have the caster measured. If you don't like the rake you can run 851/860 and it will not be that raked. Or even run 862's in the rear with a couple of packers and it will set level. We have done that in the past. Not one of our recommendations, but if you really need your truck level that is the way to go.
     
  3. waldrtw

    waldrtw

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    I guess I want the J springs because I have seen pics of FJ80's with the lower springs and they just don't look very lifted. I mean I have never seen one go offroad but they just do not llok very capable with. I don't think I will go with the j springs but I am not sure what to get. I have been trying to find some pics of cruisers with lifts on it but have had not luck ( the readers rides section is down, I guess)

    Tim
     
  4. ginericLC

    ginericLC Wagon Wheeler! SILVER Star

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    Christo,

    I'm confused or maybe I'm reading your post wrong. Are you saying that an 80 with J springs does not drive well? Or are you saying that an 80 with J springs and no caster correction does not drive well? Or an 80 with J springs and spacers to level it doesn't drive well? Elaborate if you could, I'm interested in your experiences.

    I went J springs all around, really a lightweight 91 with a small tube bumper and sliders, with the caster correction (I realize it doesn't correct quite enough to get back to stock). My Cruiser drives great down the road. I actually prefer it to our 94 which is all stock.
     
  5. waldrtw

    waldrtw

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    So are you sayind I should get the j springs and everything will drive great with the castor kit. This is my wifes daily driver so I don't want her to have to fight it driving on 2 land roads and stuff
     
  6. ginericLC

    ginericLC Wagon Wheeler! SILVER Star

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    No that isn't what I'm saying. I cannot recommend any Cruiser mod that makes your wife happy. I don't know her. The one real advantage of going with the shorter lifts is getting in and out of it everyday. My wife does not like the J springs for lifting our 10 month old son into the car seat. Previously we had a 94 with the 2.5" lift and 255/85s and I think she would have been happier with that. Once my wife gets in the rig and we are going down the road she enjoys driving and riding in the J spring'd Cruiser. The noise is a little louder than our 94 because of tires, but it is very comfortable (which is a subjective term).

    The other issue I see happening is tires. The bigger lift usually means you are going to bigger tires. Bigger tires do not always make things handle better. Usually a bigger tire can cause more wandering. For example, on our 60 we used 3 different setups. 33x12.50 MTs on 15x8s, 33x10.50s on the stock 15x5s, and finally 35x12.50 MTs on 15x8s with less backspacing. The lift and shocks were the same. With the 33x10.50s you could drive anywhere and never worry about taking your hand off the wheel. The 33x12.50s handled like crap and it was darn right scarey when you got caught in the ruts on the interstate at 75 mph. The 35s handled OK on the highway because we spaced them out and they didn't get sucked into the ruts of the interstate. But it was still sort of mushy for handling.

    Only you know what will be acceptable to your wife. Think about the big picture, a lift is usually only the beginning. What is going to happen next? When will you hit a wall with her tolerances?
     
  7. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    [quote author=ginericfj80 link=board=2;threadid=6925;start=msg57019#msg57019 date=1067539204]
    Christo,

    I'm confused or maybe I'm reading your post wrong. Are you saying that an 80 with J springs does not drive well?
    [/quote]

    Yes, if you measure the caster on a truck with 850J's and no accesories on the front, you will find that it is close to 0 or even negative ( this is even with caster bushings installed). The stock caster is 2-4 degrees.

    The steering is extremely light and emergency lane changes are scary. With a ton of weight on the front, J springs might settle down to about 2-2.5" and with caster bushings it will be ok.

    [quote author=ginericfj80 link=board=2;threadid=6925;start=msg57019#msg57019 date=1067539204]
    Or are you saying that an 80 with J springs and no caster correction does not drive well?
    [/quote]

    This is even worse. We would never send a truck like this out of the shop. Also, you run the risk of introducing what is called a "death wobble" The steering stats shacking uncontrolably and you can not get it corrected until you stop or slow down.

    [quote author=ginericfj80 link=board=2;threadid=6925;start=msg57019#msg57019 date=1067539204]
    Or an 80 with J springs and spacers to level it doesn't drive well? Elaborate if you could, I'm interested in your experiences.
    [/quote]

    You need new control arms, or cut and turn the knuckles, or some other DIY caster correction. With J springs and spacer, even with bushings you will be negative in caster.

    It is foolish to think a truck drives ok like that. To compare, get back in a stock truck and see how it feels.

    [quote author=ginericfj80 link=board=2;threadid=6925;start=msg57019#msg57019 date=1067539204]
    I went J springs all around, really a lightweight 91 with a small tube bumper and sliders, with the caster correction (I realize it doesn't correct quite enough to get back to stock). My Cruiser drives great down the road. I actually prefer it to our 94 which is all stock.
    [/quote]

    Yes, it might go straight down the road, but does your wife/girlfriend know the dynamics of the lifted truck and would she be able to handle an emergency.
     
  8. Riley

    Riley

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    Thread hijack for humor -

    Last night my wife gave the OK for lift as well. I was supposed to be helping the kids carve their pumpkins but instead I was so excited about new mods I spent my time on this MUD site asking questions ect... on lift.

    It wasn't until my kids yelled out "Hey dad - there's a 60 on the TV did they get my attention". The TV wasn't even on but it worked.

    I'm getting the 851/860 OME set and calling Christo right now.

    Yahoo!!! :cheers:

    R
     
  9. ginericLC

    ginericLC Wagon Wheeler! SILVER Star

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    [quote author=sleeoffroad link=board=2;threadid=6925;start=msg57033#msg57033 date=1067540410]


    Yes, if you measure the caster on a truck with 850J's and no accesories on the front, you will find that it is close to 0 or even negative ( this is even with caster bushings installed). The stock caster is 2-4 degrees.

    The steering is extremely light and emergency lane changes are scary. With a ton of weight on the front, J springs might settle down to about 2-2.5" and with caster bushings it will be ok.

    It is foolish to think a truck drives ok like that. To compare, get back in a stock truck and see how it feels. Yes, it might go straight down the road, but does your wife/girlfriend know the dynamics of the lifted truck and would she be able to handle an emergency.
    [/quote]

    This is why I asked. I'm going to check my caster, I'm very curious as to what it is. I probably won't get it on the machine until next week. I am running the caster correction bushings with my Js. It really does not drive poorly. I wouldn't risk putting my wife and child in a vehicle that was unsafe. Every other day or so, I drive a stock rig. The biggest difference is in the brakes (91 with rear drums 35s 94 stock 4 discs). A guy who lives near me, did the Js with Mr. Gasket spacers and didn't do any caster correction. I didn't drive or ride in his rig but I guess it was terrible. I let him drive mine and he ordered caster correction bushings right away. Thanks for your input. I will let you know what my caster measures.
     
  10. the shed guy

    the shed guy

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    And here I was thinking this "wife said yes for lift" was going to involve silicon implants, or moving her naval down.... :flipoff2:

    And theres no pics..... :p
     
  11. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    I'm sitting on 850's and a 1 inch generic :rolleyes: spacer. I am at about 3 inches. Un-corrected caster is -1.5 degrees, 4.5 degrees off spec. The vehicle is "twitchy" and I won't let any body else drive it 'til I put the bushings in.


    D-
     
  12. Strider

    Strider

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    Christo,

    below you said

    "If you don't like the rake you can run 851/860 and it will not be that raked. Or even run 862's in the rear with a couple of packers and it will set level. We have done that in the past. Not one of our recommendations, but if you really need your truck level that is the way to go. "

    I want the same 'no-rake' effect for my lift. From a load perspective, 851/860 would do it because a bull bar and winch is all I'd ever add on mine. However, for now and the next year or so I'll be set up stock.
    How much of a rig-job is the '862's in the rear with a couple of packers' really? Will it keep me from wheeling to any degree? I want a lift so I can get a little more aggressive than with my stock setup, so I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

    Matt
     
  13. Curran

    Curran

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    Tim,
    Speaking from experience, the 850J/863 setup is a nightmare. I ran this combo without the castor correction bushings and no additional weight for about a month until I installed a bull bar w/ winch, sliders, rear bumper and tire carrier. It is not a fun way to get from point a to point b. Your truck will take on a personality of its own and it will learn how to make sudden lane changes without driver input. Then when you’re least expecting it, the truck will demonstrate the "death wobble" as Christo so eloquently describes it. Next thing you know, you'll be back here asking how to get rid of the horrible odor you left in the truck when you tried to make an emergency lane change.
    CJ
     
  14. juane

    juane

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    [quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=6925;start=msg57111#msg57111 date=1067552425]
    I'm sitting on 850's and a 1 inch generic :rolleyes: spacer. I am at about 3 inches. Un-corrected caster is -1.5 degrees, 4.5 degrees off spec. The vehicle is "twitchy" and I won't let any body else drive it 'til I put the bushings in.
    D-
    [/quote]

    I'm on 850/853 and before we got the castor corrected the truck felt very unstable at highway speeds. Hated driving it. World of difference with the OME bushings installed.

    By the way, here's some pics from High Desert Cruisers run on Sunday:
    http://www.swcp.com/~juane1/images/index.html

    The white 80 be mine.
    juane
     
  15. Rogue

    Rogue

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    My truck sits up on the 850J/863 combo and it feels okay. I also have a bullbar, an M12k and sliders to weigh the truck down. I haven't driven a truck with caster correction so I have nothing to compare it to.

    It does get a bit twitchy at times but I have never experienced the death wobble previously spoken of...

    On a related note, I, like Dan, do not let anyone drive it except me just in case it has characteristics that I have simply gotten used to.

    Christo,
    You gonna be having a Valentine's Day sale on control arms? :D
     
  16. alia176

    alia176

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    Guys,

    If you have 860s in the rear, how much weight does it take to drop it an inch or two? Is 200lbs about correct?
     
  17. cary

    cary

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    A few thoughts:

    1) What ever happened to the theory of run the least lift that need. i.e., why put a 5 inch lift on, if all you will ever need for where you are going is a 2" lift.

    2) Christo does a lot of these, I would strongly suggest that you heed his advice.

    3) Any time you raise the center of gravity in a vehicle you are going to increase the risk of rollover. Also, the taller the truck, the more it will pitch and turn on bumps.

    4) I am using the 861/862 combo and it handles very nicely with the firmer springs. If this wasn't a daily driver I would consider taller springs, but as is, my Wife can barely get the car seat in and out of the car.

    Cary
     
  18. alia176

    alia176

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    Tim

    I sent you an email with before and after pics.

    Ali
     
  19. Strider

    Strider

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    If I go with 861/862 will I be able to run 285/75's or will I have to stick with the 265/75's?
     
  20. robbie

    robbie Guest

    You can run 285 with a stock set up with a little rub i the back. With the lift you will have more movement of the suspension and it will keep the tires on the ground to give you traction. The lift also gets the frame and body higher to get you away from rocks and such.If you want the best articulation then get some sway bar drops on also. Later Robbie
     
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