Ok, tomorrow I will hit two milestones on a trip I have to make. I will turn over 400,000 miles, and just for fun I will join the 100 MPH club. Why not. In fact, maybe I can do both at the same time.
Why every 60 should have a v8 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter coolotisdog
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I'm not being defensive at all.
Within the entire context of what I said.... engine swap and chases fuel mileage are not independent of each other....
IE.... if someone chases fuel mileage by performing an engine swap then I think its a crazy move.
maybe I should have refined the sentence a little bit... sorry if you took it the wrong way...not my intent.
I think it would be cool to have a Toyota 5.7 sitting under the hood but I've not see it done yet or see how one reasonably affords to do that if its possible.
I like V-8 engines.... for the money the GM-V8 is hard to beat.
Its flawed for people to say the GM V-8 sucks....or that the 2F is the best thing since sliced bread.
I think most of us with the V-8 swaps had a stock 60 where the stock OEM engine/trans may have bit the dust or on its last leg. I've not seen too many people say those tranfer case low gears suck, this or that aftermarket or GM transfer case sucks, that GM p/s pump mod sucks, or whatever brand the item in question is if its a non toyota part.
There must me some reason advance adapters makes a bell housing adapter for the GM-V8, there must be some reason there are adapters to mate the GM auto trans with the toyota transfercase...etc..etc.
Is someone with GM V-8 telling you that the 2F bites... I don't think so... they are saying that for the money I can swap to a GM-V8 and transmission and have a very streetable/trail worthy setup. That is a reasonable value. Was I impressed with the 2f on the pavement no, not at all. Does the 2f work well off road, yes I think its does a good job.
There are a thousand twists and turns on this, someone may have done this or that or may have bought this here or that over there or can do this or that.....yeah. SO if your 2F wears out, or it is obvious that you are tired of spending money on it...what then? Well one miight simply looks across the internet to see what if any solutions exist for alternative engine/transmission sources? Then one might look though the various web sites and through this forum...
What other engines are supported more so in the aftermarket regarding engine swaps to the FJ60? For good or bad? It is the GM V-8. IS the GM V8 the end all do all solution...is the 4l60E or 4L80E the end all do all solution? Some people even swap over to a GM 14 bolt rear axle housing... Sources and availability of GM parts are hard to beat.
I don't think anyone has argued for the 2f people to $hit can their engines? or whatever transmission they have? Did anyone say anything about you are screwed in the head to keep your 2f ? no
This is a stupid argument....and I'm posting to it again but not any further.
The bottom line is have fun with your truck.... I don't care if its a Toyota or a Kenworth.... do what mods make sense to you. I'm not dogging anyone's choice for engines etc...I simply said I thought it was a waste of money to chase fuel economy by doing an engine swap and I still think its crazy... hey I"m crazy like that.
sorry if I aggrivated anyone with what I said or how I said it..
I think most of us with the V-8 swaps had a stock 60 where the stock OEM engine/trans may have bit the dust or on its last leg. I've not seen too many people say those tranfer case low gears suck, this or that aftermarket or GM transfer case sucks, that GM p/s pump mod sucks, or whatever brand the item in question is if its a non toyota part.
There must me some reason advance adapters makes a bell housing adapter for the GM-V8, there must be some reason there are adapters to mate the GM auto trans with the toyota transfercase...etc..etc.
Is someone with GM V-8 telling you that the 2F bites... I don't think so... they are saying that for the money I can swap to a GM-V8 and transmission and have a very streetable/trail worthy setup. That is a reasonable value. Was I impressed with the 2f on the pavement no, not at all. Does the 2f work well off road, yes I think its does a good job.
There are a thousand twists and turns on this, someone may have done this or that or may have bought this here or that over there or can do this or that.....yeah. SO if your 2F wears out, or it is obvious that you are tired of spending money on it...what then? Well one miight simply looks across the internet to see what if any solutions exist for alternative engine/transmission sources? Then one might look though the various web sites and through this forum...
What other engines are supported more so in the aftermarket regarding engine swaps to the FJ60? For good or bad? It is the GM V-8. IS the GM V8 the end all do all solution...is the 4l60E or 4L80E the end all do all solution? Some people even swap over to a GM 14 bolt rear axle housing... Sources and availability of GM parts are hard to beat.
I don't think anyone has argued for the 2f people to $hit can their engines? or whatever transmission they have? Did anyone say anything about you are screwed in the head to keep your 2f ? no
This is a stupid argument....and I'm posting to it again but not any further.
The bottom line is have fun with your truck.... I don't care if its a Toyota or a Kenworth.... do what mods make sense to you. I'm not dogging anyone's choice for engines etc...I simply said I thought it was a waste of money to chase fuel economy by doing an engine swap and I still think its crazy... hey I"m crazy like that.
sorry if I aggrivated anyone with what I said or how I said it..
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The bottom line is have fun with your truck.... .[/QUOTE]
'Nough said
'Nough said
You contradicted yourself here.
2F is fine if:
You never have to pass smog
You never have to pass on a busy highway
You have an oil well in the back yard
You never have to climb hills.
Y'know, my opinion is evolving a bit, but I think there's also a fundamental misunderstanding here. I was wrong to imply that the 2F is outright better than the V8 in any performance sense (I still say the 2FE stroker is better than a 350 TBI for a 60, but it would probably be more fair to compare the 2FE to a 383, which obviously blows it away, even with an undersized carb and bad exhaust).
What I'm saying is, a V8 swap isn't worth the money for everyone, myself included. If you're one of those people who goes into cold sweats if you're not passing all the other cars going up a mountain pass, and you're commuting through heavy freeway traffic with your 60-series on a daily basis, a V8 swap is probably a wise investment. Otherwise, I think you're better off spending that money on lockers/lift/armor/tires/winch/H55/etc.
The only part I really disagree with is the oil well. Yeah, 13-14mpg on the highway is worse than 15-18, no ifs ands or buts. However, for the price of a V8 swap that can get that 18 mpg, it would take about 80-120k miles to break even with the price of keeping the 2F (depending on gas prices). That's long enough, in my opinion, that you shouldn't go into the swap with the V8 mpg as a main goal.
The range is going to be better, though, which counts for something. Of course, it's a lot cheaper to get an auxiliary/extended tank, but you're definitely going to enjoy the extra 40-60 miles to a tank even when you're still thousands of dollars down on your engine swap.
So, just the same as it's crazy to chase MPGs with an engine swap, I think it's a little disingenuous to criticize the 2F for its worse mileage, especially if you're comparing one that's running like crap because of a bad carb and worn out emissions gear. If you have a Vortec with bad O2 sensors etc., it's not going to do much better in the MPG department than the 2F; the same goes for a carbed 350 with rotted vac lines and exhaust leaks.
I bet most (but probably not all) of the people who talk trash about the 2F haven't ever driven one that's running well. It makes a huge difference. Mine could barely get to highway speeds with the original carb and 235 tires. Now, it's faster off the line and better on hills with 33s and stock gears than it was with the 235s and old carb. Going up the passes is a little painful, but it's definitely doable.
What I'm saying is, a V8 swap isn't worth the money for everyone, myself included. If you're one of those people who goes into cold sweats if you're not passing all the other cars going up a mountain pass, and you're commuting through heavy freeway traffic with your 60-series on a daily basis, a V8 swap is probably a wise investment. Otherwise, I think you're better off spending that money on lockers/lift/armor/tires/winch/H55/etc.
The only part I really disagree with is the oil well. Yeah, 13-14mpg on the highway is worse than 15-18, no ifs ands or buts. However, for the price of a V8 swap that can get that 18 mpg, it would take about 80-120k miles to break even with the price of keeping the 2F (depending on gas prices). That's long enough, in my opinion, that you shouldn't go into the swap with the V8 mpg as a main goal.
The range is going to be better, though, which counts for something. Of course, it's a lot cheaper to get an auxiliary/extended tank, but you're definitely going to enjoy the extra 40-60 miles to a tank even when you're still thousands of dollars down on your engine swap.
So, just the same as it's crazy to chase MPGs with an engine swap, I think it's a little disingenuous to criticize the 2F for its worse mileage, especially if you're comparing one that's running like crap because of a bad carb and worn out emissions gear. If you have a Vortec with bad O2 sensors etc., it's not going to do much better in the MPG department than the 2F; the same goes for a carbed 350 with rotted vac lines and exhaust leaks.
I bet most (but probably not all) of the people who talk trash about the 2F haven't ever driven one that's running well. It makes a huge difference. Mine could barely get to highway speeds with the original carb and 235 tires. Now, it's faster off the line and better on hills with 33s and stock gears than it was with the 235s and old carb. Going up the passes is a little painful, but it's definitely doable.
Interesting debate. Enjoyable to read through actually.
One point about fuel milage not mentioned is how far (or long) you can go on one tank...this is especially relevant when wheeling in the backcountry. The 3B probably tops the list as a fuel sipper in 4Low, but that thing is slow.
I'm curios if anybody has compared fuel economy in off-highway situations between the 2F and an SBC.
One point about fuel milage not mentioned is how far (or long) you can go on one tank...this is especially relevant when wheeling in the backcountry. The 3B probably tops the list as a fuel sipper in 4Low, but that thing is slow.
I'm curios if anybody has compared fuel economy in off-highway situations between the 2F and an SBC.
I remember my first long trip with the v8. It was actually with the guy who started this thread. We fueled up at one point and he was at a quarter and i was at 3/4 on the gauge. Obviously the 60 fuel gauge is very biased to the first quarter so it wasn't as bad as it sound s but it was pretty shocking. We were doing 70-75 and he was notafraid to flog the 2f but man that thing sucked the gas. I was getting 17mpg and have no idea what he was getting but it was bad. When i had my 2f and tried to drive az highway speeds i never got over ten.
I saw about twenty percent increase offroad. I think part of that is due to the auto and not having to rev as hard as the 2f and bad first gear.
The other part is in AZ w have a lot of sand washes and the2f just doesn't have enough to push through them without flogging the piss out of it.
I saw about twenty percent increase offroad. I think part of that is due to the auto and not having to rev as hard as the 2f and bad first gear.
The other part is in AZ w have a lot of sand washes and the2f just doesn't have enough to push through them without flogging the piss out of it.
- Thread starter
- #91
Yeah and after that I realized how much the 2f sucked when I couldn't do more than 50 up the hills to payson screaming at 4k rpms in third gear (I think I actually had to shift to second at one point). Payson is about 4000 ft higher than the Phoenix valley so there are some good grades on the drive. Kurtis passed me up the hills and got better mileage than me on the trip. Pathetic excuse for a motor. Serves no purpose other than a white trash boat anchor. Smog pump failure and vacuum lines everywhere make it extremely unreliable. My 2f ran great. I got into an accident, broke the block, and was forced to do an engine swap. I though it was a good motor....until I swapped it out. The 2f can suck a fat one.
Everything stated here is the truth. Never have I once said "Boy, I'm sure glad I have a 2F." I'll be pulling it out and replacing it with either a Vortec or a 4bt. The 2Fs days are numbered
oooooh!!!! im in the 100mph club twice in 2 LCs!!!
one was a bone stock fj62 that i hit 123 in at night on hwy 99 in CA had that rig til some A hole clobered my B pillar... that 100mph club was reallllllly sketchy and i never did that again
then in an fj60 with a chevy v8 and i was going by the tach on it and im fairly certain i got to about 120ish on 580 in CA because my limiter kicked in...darn car computers...
after driving and owning both i prefer the 350 chevy v8 because i like to go fast, plus with a 2 chamber flow it sounds hella better.
one was a bone stock fj62 that i hit 123 in at night on hwy 99 in CA had that rig til some A hole clobered my B pillar... that 100mph club was reallllllly sketchy and i never did that again
then in an fj60 with a chevy v8 and i was going by the tach on it and im fairly certain i got to about 120ish on 580 in CA because my limiter kicked in...darn car computers...
after driving and owning both i prefer the 350 chevy v8 because i like to go fast, plus with a 2 chamber flow it sounds hella better.
I don't think I have had the chance or desire to hit 100mph but I can tell yah that high speeds on or off the pavement is much better on coils.... having all that crazy power under the hood is half the equation to really upgrade these rigs the other half is a suspension upgrade..
Also there is the braking upgrade, I can't imagine my 60 with that amount of power and not being able to stop it
I honestly don't know how you guys do to stop your vortec 60's. The 60 series brakes are awful....
Living in the Past
SILVER Star
Why every 60 should have a v8
I beleive this tread has proven your statment incorrect. This is Toyota's approach to the LC in the US. One size fits all. We all know how we all love getting only the full options 200 series here. No engine options at all. Just because you like your V8 doesn't everybody else has to want to the same thing. Different strokes for different folks. When I want to cruiser down the highway I do it in my 100 series. When I want to cruise around the forest I use a early FJ40. My FJ62 sees some of both but mainly offroad.
I beleive this tread has proven your statment incorrect. This is Toyota's approach to the LC in the US. One size fits all. We all know how we all love getting only the full options 200 series here. No engine options at all. Just because you like your V8 doesn't everybody else has to want to the same thing. Different strokes for different folks. When I want to cruiser down the highway I do it in my 100 series. When I want to cruise around the forest I use a early FJ40. My FJ62 sees some of both but mainly offroad.
- Thread starter
- #98
I just got new tires. Should I start another thread and call it, "Why every 60 should have 37's."
I really wonder though if Toyota would have had the ability to produce a decent v8 and had a decent automatic at the time would have anyone actually chose the 2f and 4spd over a v8 and h55 or overdrive automatic transmission?
Would you have chose a v8 at 210hp 300lbs and rated 13 city 17mpg highway?
Or would have you really chosen 135hp only 200lbs of torque and a 4spd without overdrive getting 10-12mpg in 1987? I really doubt anyone would have chosen the 2f if given the option had been presented at the time for a similar price.
Would you have chose a v8 at 210hp 300lbs and rated 13 city 17mpg highway?
Or would have you really chosen 135hp only 200lbs of torque and a 4spd without overdrive getting 10-12mpg in 1987? I really doubt anyone would have chosen the 2f if given the option had been presented at the time for a similar price.
