Why do we do it? (1 Viewer)

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Joined
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Location
Northern Virginia
Why do we do it?
Why do we put all the time and money into a vehicle that is 25+ years old and in alot of cases a ton of money?

My automotive teacher once told me that if you put repairs totaling over 1/2 of the total value of your vehicle, it is time to sell it.

So I am in the process of rebuilding my FJ60.
The PO rebuilt the head and short block, including a new oil pan and clutch the cost installed back into the rig was $8200 based on the receipts.
That was 2012-2013. Head and block were done at different times. Total driven miles from the time from the rebuilds when I bought it in 2016 = (5k on block, 7K on head). The front end including complete front brakes were done 500 miles before I bought it for another $1200 (3rd member was not done, but everything else was).

Now I have it.
I bought is for just over 1/2 the cost of the parts rebuilt above.
I have rebuilt the rear axle including the 3rd member
Complete new brakes
New tie rode ends
New Antenna and stereo
New seat fabric
New center console
New carpet
new wheel arches (repair panels that I am welding in)
ARB front bumper (got a killer deal)
New wheels and tires
Replaced the upper hatch
Rebuilt Jim C carb
Complete new AC components (not all are installed)
New alternator
New smog pump
New Springs
New Shocks
New Shackles
A bunch of stuff I forgot

To come
Rebuilt steering gearbox
New steering pump
Rear bumper
Roof rack
Long range tank
Paint
A bunch of stuff I forgot

Wish list
Fuel injection
5 speed
Lockers
rebuild and install spare 4:10 3rds
Install full floater axle

All in will be close to 18K without the wish list and 24K with it. All of that without my labor costs. That cost would be 10K+ (that is not a joke if you figure 250 hours min at $40 per hour, cheap compared to my IT consulting rates)

For that I can put a hell of a deposit on something else.

My wife calls it a sickness and cuts of the funding from time to time. Threatens me and tries to get me to sell it. At this point the loss it far to great.
My 60 is planned to be my daily driver, again against my wife's recommendation, never mind everything will have been rebuilt, it is old per her.


Why do I do it?

Well that is hard to answer.
I make decent money. I currently drive a 2007 F150 Lariat. It has 150K on the clock is fully loaded with power everything, leather heated seats and hell it has full radio and heat (temp and fan speed) controls on the steering wheel. It's current KBB value is around $8500-9500. It get about the same fuel economy as a 60.
I plan my 60 to replace this vehicle and I will be driving it daily. I think for me it is that I am tired of all the complexity of modern vehicles. When I lived in Canada, I fixed all of my own vehicles. Rare items like windshields and tires were done at the shop. I did everything else myself. While I can do a number of things on my F150 or my wife's Denali, I am always careful to avoid the electronics.
I use to have a fancy Land Rover LR3. Driving it one day and the suspension dropped (air) to the lowest point and the vehicle went into limp mode, fortunately I was 5 miles from home. I had it towed to the dealer and turned out it was a bad battery, WTF??.
About 6 months after I got my F150, it was used, there was a horrible noise coming from the front end, like the axles were engaging (it is a 4x4). Turns out when the 4x4 the vacuum actuator fails it engages the axles. Really Ford? Now the NAV DVD drive is dead (only a $700 fix and my phone works fine).

So the 60 is my way out of the nightmare that is modern cars. I like to fix my vehicles, I like to do the repairs and know it was done 'right' (that is a whole other story) and that everything was cleaned up correctly.
That and really it is just a great vehicle. Mine has just over 275K on the clock and it will go another 275K I am sure of it. There are few exceptions in modern cars that will ever see that.
I like the style of it, the simplicity of it and really how much it pisses off the save the world types.

So Why do you do it?
 
I love my old cars. Only once in my life did I ever have brand new. You'll laugh, it was an '02 Kia Rio, bright Kermit the Frog green (they called it Emerald). It was stock, literally no radio, and stick shift. Boy was that a surprise to feel a new clutch! For me the warranty was enough for my needs. Bought the thing and less than two months later my daughter was diagnosed with cancer and I was driving all over the place in it. At something like 56K it blew its timing belt went and blew the engine, they warrantied it. Second time it blew again at 122K coming off the Sagamore Bridge going onto the Cape and at that point my old truck (my first 84 FJ60) was a backup at home in CT so I let the wrecker take the Kia to the dump. I used that car for almost 8 years, it saw me through all my daughters sickness and after she passed. It was a great car and struck a cord when I had it towed away. My DD now for the last 6+ years now is a 97 Nissan Sentra, I bought her for $50 and she is a great little car. I have really just begun to do some heavy maint on her and honestly I think her engine will last longer than her body.

My third FJ60, an 87, sits in my drive for now, she's simply waiting for me. This CT cold is too much for me to take. Today its -8, fxxx that BS, then Thurs and Fri it will be 54! The wealth I have learned tearing her down (top end and rebuilt tons of other parts) and putting her back together with the vast help of mud has been a massive stress reliever esp, character and confidence builder, makes me less dependent, I have gall, I am willing to take risks and jump in, I am resourceful, I have a profound curiosity... Seriously, those are just some of the adjectives. And I am a woman teaching my young son how to recycle, restore and reuse, that this life is not all about disposable.
 
I love my old cars. Only once in my life did I ever have brand new. You'll laugh, it was an '02 Kia Rio, bright Kermit the Frog green (they called it Emerald). It was stock, literally no radio, and stick shift. Boy was that a surprise to feel a new clutch! For me the warranty was enough for my needs. Bought the thing and less than two months later my daughter was diagnosed with cancer and I was driving all over the place in it. At something like 56K it blew its timing belt went and blew the engine, they warrantied it. Second time it blew again at 122K coming off the Sagamore Bridge going onto the Cape and at that point my old truck (my first 84 FJ60) was a backup at home in CT so I let the wrecker take the Kia to the dump. I used that car for almost 8 years, it saw me through all my daughters sickness and after she passed. It was a great car and struck a cord when I had it towed away. My DD now for the last 6+ years now is a 97 Nissan Sentra, I bought her for $50 and she is a great little car. I have really just begun to do some heavy maint on her and honestly I think her engine will last longer than her body.

My third FJ60, an 87, sits in my drive for now, she's simply waiting for me. This CT cold is too much for me to take. Today its -8, **** that BS, then Thurs and Fri it will be 54! The wealth I have learned tearing her down (top end and rebuilt tons of other parts) and putting her back together with the vast help of mud has been a massive stress reliever esp, character and confidence builder, makes me less dependent, I have gall, I am willing to take risks and jump in, I am resourceful, I have a profound curiosity... Seriously, those are just some of the adjectives. And I am a woman teaching my young son how to recycle, restore and reuse, that this life is not all about disposable.
Well, well, NeverGive Up, you have provided the core, the deep truth to Willard’s very good question (or is it a quest?). “Things” are a funny thing: sometimes they are just a thing and other times they are the representation of who and what we are. In today’s world where 2 seconds of very poor consideration, leaps of judgement, and “things” that are more fashion and less tradition, our beloved cruisers are a full testament to the enduring, the individual and to a community ( in this particular case has a unique and ribald salut).

I too have put one hell of a lot of money in my 87 60. Hell of a lot more than one would consider “wise” if we do the pure economics. But I am not in any hurry to sell- the Antichrist is mine for a long time. I have gone through just about every piece and have become knowledgeable about the form and function with the goal of, If this thing breaks on me in the middle of no where ( which I have worked hard to avoid), I will be able to fix it. I am pretty lucky to be able to afford the time and money to do this. However, the real beauty of the Landcruiser is that it will accept the expensive “frame off” to the penny pinching repair as what can be afforded.

I get personal satisfaction from the result. I have gained capability. I get recognition publically. I get across town and across countries via routes few can go to and do things that the ordinary cannot. This can be seen as a sickness. I see it as a passion. One of those things that makes life worth it. (Note: wrenching on a truck is only half the deal, getting out there in it is so much more).

I get if one doesn’t go down this path due to the cost in time and money. I think others that don’t understand “Why we do it” are a bit amazed and bewildered when they ogle a well done Landcruiser on the street, trail or parking lot. We don’t do this because its our basic transport, we do it because we want a well designed easy to maintain, attractive practice, reliable vehicle that we can maintain, make our own and find ourselves in each nut and bolt.

Thanks for posting this very good question. Thanks for all the replies. Tell your wife that you have a very acceptable mistress.
 
I agree it is a passion, one that can take you places, one that you can learn with, one you can interact with.
They are not so hard to work on, an industrious person can take care of most tasks with a small set of tools and a strong will.
If the parts stayed available it would be interesting to see how many old cruisers stayed on the road vs. todays modern marvels.
And when you walk into a parking lot past endless spots filled with 60k trucks and people are waiting to ask about your cruiser? Well that is kinda damn cool too.
 
Many new cars are just over engineered in my opinion: Electronic 4x4 shifters; drive by wire accelerators; mini turbos that are thousands of dollars to replace; overly expensive air bag systems that when activated usually total the car. Their designers forgot the KISS (keep it simple stupid!) principle. Many parts are not re-buildable but rather are disposable. Some car makers are now locking us out of working on their vehicles which really turns me off from ever buying. Special scan tools to read the ecm or secret security codes to reset a radio.

As far as values, it is hard to know what this vehicle will be worth. When I bought mine over 10 years ago some co-workers scoffed at the idea of my throwing money at replacing the transmission. It was a "beater" and waste to throw that kind of money at it. Now the values have gone up 3x and I'm still ahead in the long run compared to buying a new truck every few years. I've never made a payment on my cruiser and total of annual repair bills is far less than taxes, insurance and payments and interest on any 4x4 i could dream of buying new.

Sometimes you have to go with your gut. An art collector sees the value in a rare painting not because some appraiser said what it's worth, but because he "sees" the painting as special. He buys it for himself because it is special (at least to him) and if his gut was right the art collector world might some day see it too and he feels justified.
 
Because I'm at a point in my life financially, that I can afford too. I remember the first time I saw a LC and I thought they were the coolest vehicles on the road. I was probably 12-13 years old and I fell in love with them. The feeling is hard to describe but it's always been there. I still get that same feeling every time I see one, even today, some 35 plus years later.

I remember asking my very practical parents to buy one and having absolutely no use for a LC, they very quickly dismissed my request. All the while growing up, going to high school and college, the desire was always there for a LC, just couldn't afford one.

Time has a way of rewarding those who are patient and I'm now the proud owner of a 40 and a 62. Practical, not from a DD sense but from a star struck 13 year olds coolness factor, HELL YEAH;)
 
That’s a question I have never been able to fully answer. But I get reminders often. On a recent ride I was with 2 fairly built Jeep cherokees I have run around with quite a bit. We crossed a creek and one of the jeeps sucked enough water to kill the engine after we got it restarted it wouldn’t shift correctly and the tranny overheated it seemed he blew a throttle positioning sensor that controls the transmission, so I drove 150 miles RT to get a replacement part. We got it fixed then the other Jeep had electronic issues also with the tranny. We had to limp it home. Then there’s the time my 60 starter would not turn over in a very remote area. It was not in a place I could roll start it, so I hit the starter a good hit with a rock and it started. My 100 series starter is UNDER the intake manifold. Any vehicle can fail in one way or the other but there is so much less to go wrong on a 60, I love manual windows, manual tranny, and Tfer case , solid axles , leaf springs and lock out hubs on a vehicle I can do most of the work on myself, I don’t feel the same about my 100. It’s been very reliable but The electronics worry me after reading about engine immobilizing , coil pack issues and such. Which is probably the same with all newer vehicles. To me a 60 is such a special vehicle, mine rides awesome, gets about the same mileage as my 100, is about as reliable as I would think any vehicle can be and has such a great look to it. I can justify putting money into it because I’m sure it won’t lay down on me tomrrow and if something does go wrong it’s probably going to be a simple fix.
 
People are always bewildered by the cars I have.
All old, all manual. I just love the simplicity of the old car and the involment that’s needed to both drive them and maintain them.
The camaraderie that comes with ownership is just a bonus. It just amazes me how a vehicle can bring people together. You have people from all backgrounds, political beliefs and financial means getting along because of a common love for a vehicle. I’ve only ran across one fellow 60 owner that didnt want to talk about his truck.
My wife has a new car and I admit it’s nice for those times when you just need to get from A to B and don’t have time to enjoy the journey. Quite, smooth, speed adaptive cruise and 38mpg at 85 is cool....but I miss down shifting and checking my mirrors when crawling up a grade

Cost of repairs doesn’t concern me. It’s always going to be less than any new car, have you seen the price of an optioned F150?
While it’s nice to see values rising so we are not “upside down “ it doesn’t really matter because I’m not selling.

Oh yeah I also do it for my Dogs. They love the 60, it’s the vehicle they run to when they know they’re going somewhere.
 
Because the thrill of waving to another cruiser is so exhilarating.
 
Which sadly doesn't happen enough any more. :frown:
 
When I was a boy, my best friend and tormentor, Alvis, was a wizard on the magic carpet with wheels, known to the modern man, as a skateboard. Alvis was one of those kids that always had the daredevil look in his eyes, that would make any parent grab their little children by the shoulders and turn them away in the opposite direction. As such, my parents would let me tag along with my brother everywhere, and Alvis was sure as hell somewhere causing a ruckus.

The thing about Alvis, though, is that he is quite persuasive, without even having to directly tell you a single thing. It's as if, he makes whatever he does look so god damn good, that you just want to do it, and hope some of the Cool rubs off on you.

I had hardly seen Alvis for a decade, as we both went to opposite sides of the copper state. One day, for my graduation party from college, Alvis arrived in a 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser, which to me looked like some funky, plastic, soccer mom car on steroids. I had no idea what these machines were, as my Mexican heritage usually looks to the aesthetics of the 80's Monte Carlo, or the dependability of a Chevrolet Silverado. I can hardly remember taking that thing around Pinal County with a handful of drunken friends, and even more vaguely, my friend Brady shooting a shotgun out of the back on this moving vehicle. But that even that was not enough to convince me of the Land Cruiser.

One day, early last year, I went out to see Alvis, as he was going camping with some friends in Joshua National Forest. Only this time, it was in a white 1984 FJ60. It was like looking at a dinosaur, with that Mighty 2F engine breathing as if a dragon was in slumber. The simple components made it a very charming vehicle, with minimal creature comforts, aside from the mediocre stereo, blasting Black Joe Lewis and the HoneyBears. I had a Triumph Bonneville, but never before this did I ever drive standard. Driving this mammoth of a truck, with its underpowered motor and lack of steering control, was all the persuasion I needed.

A few months later, I purchased Peaches, a blue 1983 FJ60 with smoke coming out of the tailpipe that would rival Cheech and Chong. Alvis was upfront about the painful damage the truck would do to my wallet, but I didn't care, I was chasing that cool ass feeling that Alvis demonstrated for me while doing a Frontside Kickflip over dirt gaps from my youth.

I bought the truck, and have since put so much money into this truck, that it nearly rivals my insurmountable student debt. But screw it, 60 don't care, and neither do I.

cruiser.JPG
 
To those pondering this question I would recommend the book: "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance." Robert Pirsig writes an insightful treatise about the event of 'quality', when a combination of mental achievements results in a superior artifact or phenomenon. People notice and are drawn to quality in all its various forms.

What does a hunter feel when her freezer is full of venison she bagged? She could have bought hamburger at the supermarket much easier. Knowing how to work on your own vehicle is a similar self reliance. Nearly all of the people driving new cars have no clue what to do if they fail. They use their cell phone to call AAA. This is not 'independence'. Being utterly reliant on multiple other people and infrastructure is the definition of 'dependent'. Deep down most people know this and it comes out by them either admitting it and admiring your older, more simple Land Cruiser or by trying to suppress the knowledge and instead criticize the waste and pollution and demand that we become similarly helpless so they don't feel so inadequate.

Transportation is ultimately about freedom. Remember when you got your first bicycle, or when you were a teenager and went from that bike to a car (no matter how crappy)? It made work and fun possible, evoked optimism that that job would lead to a better. Land Cruisers take this to an even greater level as they bring not just the city streets and rural highways into our possible future but also, offer the whole map of every red dashed line Rand McNally ever printed. We can go nearly everywhere in a Land Cruiser. Or at least get close enough to hike the rest of the way.
 
Rugged simplicity with character.

I've owned my 60 for 20 years and last year had the 6BT swapped into it which just made it better.

The only brand new vehicle I've ever had as my daily driver was a company provided '07 F150. The best thing about it was that it wasn't mine. Drove the crap out of it but it was an underpowered truck in name only piece of junk.

I see ads for these new trucks and SUVs with all kinds of fancy gadgets and just think why would I want that? If you can't back a trailer yourself you shouldn't pull one. Never mind wondering how long those electronics will last if you actually use it as a truck and the expense to replace them.
 
You all already expressed my sentiments. I'm the type of guy who prefers shooting muzzle loaders, I roll my own cigarettes, brew my own beer and make mashed taters from whole potatoes and cook most things on old cast iron. I despise planned obsolescence and throw-away consumerism. The 60 is like a motorcycle in the fact that YOU have to actually DRIVE it. You feel every action and strive for grace. Anticipating the road ahead, picking your line. Can I pass this guy?
It's rare to see an older vehicle in a parking lot but usually it's another Land Cruiser. Expensive? How about a loan on a $57,000 plastic pickup? I wonder how that truck will look in 30 years.
 
Me and my friend drive stalked a 60 until we got to it today. I knew the truck from just pictures on fb and mud. It’s a good day when you spot a cruiser and your able to formally introduce yourself after countless emails.
 
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I started teaching my daughters and son when they were little with their dirt bikes, if you can't start it , you can't ride it. That continued with their cars. I taught them how to do basic maintenance and repairs so they wouldn't always be at the mercy of someone else. This leads to the reason I drive a 60. In a world where, if you want it just buy it. I am always glad to see old 4x4s out on the trail because I know most of these drivers have earned the right to be there. You don't take a 25+ year old vehicle off road without having worked on it first and understanding how things function. Don't get me wrong, some of these new 4x4s come off the showroom floor with amazing options and some people do know how to work on them, but they are the minority. The rigs are very capable, until something electronic goes wrong, then not so much. Being a little older, I have seen the trend of irresponsible offroaders grow to the point that they are ruining it for us that have earned the right to out there. Owning a 60 makes me really appreciate the basic experience of being in the back-country where most do not travel. Every dime we spend on our rigs makes them better and more reliable. Wrenching,driving and sharing our passion is all part of the big picture. I have never owned a vehicle with such a tight network of people and knowledge to go with it. I am sure, with the help of this community, I will be able to enjoy this ride for a long time. That is why I do it.:cheers:
 

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