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Why are the airlines sinking?

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by concretejungle, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. concretejungle

    concretejungle SILVER Star

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    I just don't get it...... i have recently been flying a lot, almost every weekend. Several things i have noticed are one, all you get now is a coke and a mini bag of peanuts because of costs :rolleyes: . Secondly, ticket prices are not really cheap but at the same time they are not astronomical. And third, 95% of the flights i have been on have been almost completely full. In fact, most of them are full. So why are the airlines struggling so? I think that the CEOs and such are making WAY too much money and taking it out on flight attendants, mechanics and the real airline workforce.

    Also, on another note, I was thinking last weekend when flying to Indy that the "first class" fawkers are sitting in the front of the plane because they are better then everyone else. So naturally if we crash they will be the first to go; and they are paying top dollar for that! amazing.
     
  2. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    I think it's both.

    The greed of the corporate management, and the greed of the unions.

    If either one of them want to have jobs in the future, they will both have to make sacrifices.

    Fuel prices don't help in the short term.

    Insurance costs are high. Lots of lawsuits:

    February 11 -- By reader acclaim: "Sisters Suing Southwest Over 'Racist Rhyme'". "A judge has set a trial date in a discrimination lawsuit filed against Southwest Airlines by two black passengers who were upset when a flight attendant recited a version of a rhyme with a racist history. ... [F]light attendant Jennifer Cundiff, trying to get passengers to sit down, said over the intercom, 'Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; pick a seat, we gotta go.'" (AP/Fox News, Feb. 10; Robert A. Cronkleton, "Rhyme at center of lawsuit against Southwest Airlines", Kansas City Star, Feb. 10).

    It didn't take long for lawsuits against airlines involved in the 9/11 tragedy:

    Another batch of federal lawsuits, 38 in total, have been or soon will be filed on behalf of victims' family members by attorneys Mary Schiavo and John Greaves of the Los Angeles firm Baum, Hedlund, Aristei, Guilford & Schiavo. Greaves and Schiavo's first court filings were in January.

    These suits target United and American airlines as well as the security firms Huntleigh USA Corp. and Argenbright Security Inc. The security firms were contracted by the airlines at the airports where the four doomed flights originated on Sept. 11.

    The companies are charged with negligence, reckless conduct, and conscious disregard for rights and safety.


    An aging fleet with replacement costs rising (cause Boeing and Airbus are insured up to their respective eyeballs too,) all lend to Airlines' woes.

    THen, when you mix in the success of no frills budget carriers like Southwest and JetBlue, it only compounds the problems.


    Steve
     
  3. LongIsland60

    LongIsland60

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    ALthough managment salaries are probably too high for what they actually do, that is not the reason they are failing. When you sell a service for less than it costs for you to provide it then there is going to be trouble. Such large businesses are a bit intractable and suffer from many problems. My opinion is that they operate on too small a margin, or, negative margin.
     
  4. Ocelot

    Ocelot

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    Yeah the wages have not much to do with the airlines failing... just look at either emirates air or Cathay Pacific... between $200-$350k/yr salaries for the pilots and both those airlines are making a crapload.

    For small operators the insurance, fuel, and maintenance costs are whats killing them... and for the most part the industry is providing the service way to cheaply. If they really wanted to make a killing they should go back to only catering to the extreemly rich
     
  5. Jman

    Jman

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    'Cause they suck! They never should have been bailed out in the first place!
     
  6. stayalert

    stayalert SILVER Star

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    I'm Hijacking this flight....er thread....How is eenie meenie minie moe racist? unless you're a rabbit I mean....isn't the next line catch a rabbit by the toe?

    HEcK my avatar's a jackalop and he told me there was no offense taken...

    WTF?

    We now return to our normal inflight programming....
     
  7. FLFJ40

    FLFJ40

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    Because fuel is killing them, pulling numbers out of my @ss, but figure a 777 is burning a gallon a second on average for a two hour flight, that comes up to 7,200 gal. x $2.40=$17,280 before you pay for ground crew, landing fees, pilots, attendents, advertising, ect. ect. I think what most people don't take into account when they think about airlines is the cost of the actual craft, again with the 777 what does it cost $120 million whatever it is it costs a buttload, and you have to pay that off before you ever make a dime. And you think LC parts are expensive, how many airplane aftermarket manufactures do you think are out there. I don't think it will be very long before we are back down to one or two major airlines again.
     
  8. Jman

    Jman

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    It wasn't "rabbit" it was "tiger" and before it was "tiger" it was . . . uh, not "liger." :rolleyes: It was the "N" word. :eek:

    So, if you say that to two black, um, African American passengers, it can be construed, perhaps, as racist in intent. :rolleyes: But I think that's a stretch, I imagine that was the attendant's stock phrase.
     
  9. LabRat11

    LabRat11

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    Found this......
    http://www.today.ucla.edu/2003/030225lawsuit.html


    And - Yup - that's the way I learned the rhyme from the other playground kids in the south in the late 60's.
     
  10. Degnol

    Degnol

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    I have a bud that is an international Captain on a DC 10 and he has been with the airline for about 20 years. He makes 285K + Health insurance + pension + he must retire at age 60. Always bitching about management vs labor....like HE'S LABOR (@285K!). Trouble is, I think there are lots of folks who would do that job for a lot less.


    And another thing, if the only airlines making any money are point-to-point, and the one's losing money are hub-based......Uh, maybe hubs are a bad idea???
    It never made any sense to me to fly to St. Louis to get to Houston.



    Ed
     
  11. Jman

    Jman

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    Uh, that's how I learned it in the 1960s, too, but I grew up in NJ. :eek: Town full of farmers, but only about 30 miles from Manhattan.

    I always used "one potato, two potato . . . " :D
     
  12. DenverCruiser

    DenverCruiser

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    Wholly crap, I did not know this. :eek:
     
  13. scottm

    scottm

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    And I am. My Dad retired under the old system, I'm making about 1/3 what he made at this point in my career, same airline. I expect pay and retirement to continue to drop, same as doctors and other professionals. I'm writing this from my second job (after hours), I may hang up the wings as engineering is going well for me. My Dad worked a second job during part of his career, it's never been a stable career.

    Airlines have always cycled above and below profitability, few carriers from my youth are even around. There's a lot of emotion in customer and management choices in the flying business, frequently not logical or sound. The big carriers are going through what they've always gone through, "budget" carriers have lowered the standards in many areas to shave costs, and the legacy carriers are trying to match those lower standards to survive.
     
  14. PHBeerman

    PHBeerman

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    Amen Brother.
     
  15. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    The airlines have figured out that they can go the same route as the railroads did and get subsidies to exist, because we NEED them. :rolleyes:


    Plain and simple
     
  16. Jman

    Jman

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    Oh, crap, what has the world come to? Beerman and I agree on something. . . . . :rolleyes: :D
     
  17. Cruisin'Carolina

    Cruisin'Carolina

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    Unions.

    Not necessarliy the wages being earned today, but the pension plans (called defined benefits plans, as opposed to the rest of that contribute ourselves, with help or not from the employer to you 401K)

    The low-cost carriers do not pay that much less to their pilots or staff.

    But they are not carrying a huge load of retirees' benefits either.

    Same thing that is weighing down the so called "big three".

    The present employees and passengers are carrying the weight of Union negotiated deals of long ago.

    They will quit paying, and you and I will get to make up for it. Research the term: PBGC
     
  18. OZCAL

    OZCAL

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    I don't think airlines have ever made money.
     
  19. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    You friend, are seriously delusional.
     
  20. OZCAL

    OZCAL

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    Well, maybe but I still don't think airlines have made money.