Whos soa with no cut&turn (1 Viewer)

[weak-link]

okay, if its so easy why does evryone charge 200+ bucks. is there anyone in utah willing to help me c&t. if so let me know i will bring my axle to you and some beers and dinner.

200 bucks dude the only reason I did mine the way I did was beacuse Marlin's shop wanted 4,000 bucks to do it(they wouldn't just do the cut and turn they wanted to everything) another shop in town wanted 2,000bucks. but for two hundred bucks! Just pay the money and sleep easy at night knowing it's done right.


And yes I know mine is not set up the right way. I was borrowing the welder and had to have it back the next day. But I think this september or october it's going to get taken out and done right. now that I have access to a shop

 

[HawkDriver]

I will tell ya that I ran SOA without C&T for a few years and had no steering probs. I kept it simple, All I did was set the new perches on top of the axle then made sure that the measurement was exactly the same on the gap in front and gap in back thus making it equal and therefor not changing the caster in anyway. Next I noticed that the front shaft would bind so I took it to the grinder and took a little off.

Some folks will say that that is a big no no and I would say that if you don't have enough material on the yokes (like with a heep's weenie ass shafts) it could be dangerous. Thankfully the Toyota folks put plenty on there. I was never worried about the strength at that spot if you do it right.

Never had vibes because I never drove on the hiway in 4 hi at hi speeds. Never had binding because I grinded off enough. And never broke it either. The downside is that the pinion is not tucked up and looks funny, but hey it worked. I think you should C&T but it's not needed, just a preference.

Just becareful with the welding because those housing tubes will bend very easily and then you'll have some camber issues. Do little at a time and allow to cool.

Pics of my old cruiser done this way.

 

[HawkDriver]

If you grind the yokes, remember to take into consideration the angle at max droop. There'll be enough on there to take off. I had some sick droop and still no binding. But you don't want to have a bind up cause that can mess some stuff up badly. I also had plenty of slip. Stock springs and shackles too though.

I don't recommend doing it this way and would prefer a cut and turn if I had the resources money and time. Just saying what my results were. No excuses here, I just did it this way because I was a cheap impatient bastid. This took like a couple hours whereas a complete teardown for cut and turn would be alot more.

 

[wesintl]

I didn't cut and turn mine. I haven't seen my 40 in since last nov. though. I think you could probably buy a ds from tom woods or someone that wouldn't need the yokes ground. But I dunno and a gasser is the furthest thing from my mind right now

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...put the pinion axactly where it was before and your rig will drive the same way (well taking into the SOA of course)...

1* of steering caster was never optimal (OK, mabey with OEM steering and the 29" tires from the factory). Between 3*-7* is much more preferred for improveed steering....

So, even if you leave it at the factory angle, you nearly have a -1* (practically 0* with respect to horizontal) pinion ange, with a SOA FJ40 (even with a longer front driveshaft) this is NOT optimal in the least bit, binding can and will occur...

And, why go through all that work to leave your poor driveshaft and pinion down in the rocks? Sounds like a good way to get hung up all the time...

I talk chat with Cruiser guys all the time, and for all the "didn't cut and happy", there are alot more "wish I had's, or glad I did's"... Not worth the second guessing and ROCK dragging pinion.

You proved my point, just one time having a driveshaft bind and I would have kicked myself in the ass...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

okay, if its so easy why does evryone charge 200+ bucks. is there anyone in utah willing to help me c&t. if so let me know i will bring my axle to you and some beers and dinner.

What do you do for a living?

Lets see... $195

The biggest pain of the Cut & Turn is cleaning off the old housing... I spend far more time cutting and grinding then I do with the actual Cut/Turn.

Cleaning the greasy axle...
Cutting ALL the shock mounts, perches, steering stops, brake line mounts, etc
Grind the axle completely smooth
Weld in all the knicks from cutting (actually the knicks from the OEM fabrication)
Bolt in 3rd member
Fix axle to the jig
Cut and rotate the knuckles to customers specs
Tack-weld
Re-check
Finish weld
Remove 3rd
Apply a coat of paint on all the bar metal to keep the rust away.

Mabey I should charge more?

That being said, if you bring me a clean housing, with all the steering stops, perches removed, ready to cut, I will do it for $100... I have always offered that to customers and I will continue to do the same.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

who said cut and turn is the right way? there was a huge discusion on this matter, i believe it helps if you c&t and i believe it doesnt hurt to not c&t.

Not a doubt in my mind... I believe it does hurt you...

Between Darrell, DJ, Randy and I, we have probably done 150+ FJ40 spring overs.... and many of the first ones did not get a cut/turn FJ housing. And the problem existed then, enough to make some guys (DJ & Randy) start using other outers (also ditched the birf)... this was back in the 80's. Then Charles (Rocky Mountain Axle) started cutting and turning the OEM ones... never done a SOA without it since.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

kurt i didnt say it was optimal, i even said more caster is good. but necassary from a steering standpoint?? ....

I never said it was completely necessary from a steering standpoint, but I do think it is completely necessary from a SOA standpoint... IMHO

 

[dgangle]

cut and turn has absolutely nothing to do with driveabilty outside of shaft angle and binding issues

I give up. Some people will never understand I guess.

Too many people that either don't understand, know how, to scared, lazy or frugal to pay someone to do it for them are attempting to justify their position.

Duh, if your drive shaft binds on droop, vibrates at anything over 15 MPH and the damn thing falls out once and a while then we are coming from two oposite ends of the spectrum here.

I am done with this thread. ;p

Don't use laziness to justify your opinion.

 

[71-CRUISER]

I give up. Some people will never understand I guess.

I am done with this thread. ;p

That is why the second post in this thread was my last.

You can argue a thousand reasons why it would be OK not to cut and turn but the fact remains that you would be beter off if you do.

 

[camcruiser13]

sorry fellas i didnt mean to kick the bee hive and get everyone at each other. nothin but love. all this info is helpful no need to argue, money was never an issue and not lazy, just a simple question.

 

[71-CRUISER]

Fair enough. We are just tring to help.

 

[bustanutley]

we are just trying to save you from yourself

 

[cruiseroutfit]

we are just trying to save you from yourself

Agreed... I am my own worst enemy...

Everytime the girlfreind goes out of town... I get a new Cruiser project of somekind!

 

[haystax]

I didn't cut and turn - wish I had just because it would be perfect if i had, still very serviceable and no troubles - not worth tearing everything apart to do it - next time i will

SOA w/35s, revolvers, stock springs and shackle reversal - just about everything that could be "wrong" according to most on this board but the only problem I have is not enough slip travel in my driveline. I'll be calling Kurt about new T-case yolk for my driveline guy and I'll be done. It handles great, no death wobble, no horrible binding of the d-shaft and it will probably last the life of the vehicle.

No matter how you build your junk, something about the parts/methods used won't be good enough for someone on here...just make sure it is safe for the sake of others on the highway and don't sweat it.

 

[atoyot]

If you are turning the knuckles with the axle under the vehicle should the front end be at the same height it would be at with wheels on? How important is the level of the vehicle itself when using the angle finder? If you have the front end on jack stands it's going to be higher then if it was sitting on the tires. Is this an issue?

 

[bustanutley]

Its not super imperative for the actual cutting and turning of the axle because you set your actual caster when you blast the spring perches on.

 

[Trollhole]

If you are turning the knuckles with the axle under the vehicle should the front end be at the same height it would be at with wheels on? How important is the level of the vehicle itself when using the angle finder? If you have the front end on jack stands it's going to be higher then if it was sitting on the tires. Is this an issue?

Well it should be +1 stock so if you don't have your vehicle level then that number will be something else. LIke mine was +2. So I will do my final castor angle for 6. That will give me +5 level. Right where I want to be.

Also you want the weight of the vehicle on the front end when doing this.

 

[Trollhole]

What do you do for a living?

Lets see... $195

The biggest pain of the Cut & Turn is cleaning off the old housing... I spend far more time cutting and grinding then I do with the actual Cut/Turn.

Cleaning the greasy axle...
Cutting ALL the shock mounts, perches, steering stops, brake line mounts, etc
Grind the axle completely smooth
Weld in all the knicks from cutting (actually the knicks from the OEM fabrication)
Bolt in 3rd member
Fix axle to the jig
Cut and rotate the knuckles to customers specs
Tack-weld
Re-check
Finish weld
Remove 3rd
Apply a coat of paint on all the bar metal to keep the rust away.

Mabey I should charge more?

That being said, if you bring me a clean housing, with all the steering stops, perches removed, ready to cut, I will do it for $100... I have always offered that to customers and I will continue to do the same.

So what would you charge to do all the above? if it' 195$ that is a steal. Of course the 100 shipping out there and 100 back is where I would get robbed. Also do you do weld the perches back on.?

And if you had someone bring the whole vehicle to do a front SOA what would you charge including materials?

Just though it would be nice to know what I saved and help other who might not have to tools or experience know what it will cost them.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So what would you charge to do all the above? if it' 195$ that is a steal.

$195 (or way cheaper if you do the prep ) It is alot of work and honestly I can make more money doing something alot less labor intensive. My predecessor (Darrel Noorda) refuse to do just the cut & turn, he would either do the whole SOA or none of it...

Of course the 100 shipping out there and 100 back is where I would get robbed. Also do you do weld the perches back on.?

We can ship them just about anywhere in the US for ~$35-55, not too bad considering the size and weight...

As for the perches, NO, not unless we have the vehicle here. There are too many variables to try and get right over the phone or email and it is best done under the vehicle IMHO.

And if you had someone bring the whole vehicle to do a front SOA what would you charge including materials?

There are alot of variables (SR, springs, brakelines, etc), but if we have to R&R the front axle, etc it can be $1000+ (knuckle rebuild kit, C&T front housing, shocks, perches, brakelines, steering and driveleing mods), with upper end parts it can go to $3000 in a hurry.

Just though it would be nice to know what I saved and help other who might not have to tools or experience know what it will cost them.

Not a problem

Like I said, there are alot of shops that don't do "just the housing", etc... but I was there once too... I go into Cruiser when I was 15 and broke Plus, we have been very sucsessful in our Mail Order specialties... can't think of business without all my distant customers (I love you guys! )