Which engine swap to go with? (1 Viewer)

[lt1fire]

So here is my 1st world dilema on which engine swap to go with. Just putting this up for fun more than anything right now.
I have both of these motors already so they are the only ones i'm going to consider.
What we have here is a classic diesel vs gas/petrol debate.
In corner 1 we have a Gen V LT 5.3 L83 V8 out of a 2015 silverado sitting on an engine stand.
In corner 2 we have a VE pump 4bt that is currently sitting in my wife's 68 bronco crawler/weekend driver

Stock HP/TQ numbers (this one will obviously be in favor of the L83)
5.3 - 355 HP and 383 ft/lbs but if running E85 its 380 HP and 416 ft/lbs.... e85 isn't super available in my area so i'll base it off the first number
4bt - 105 HP and 265 ft/lbs (obviously this should end the debate but the 4bt won't be using the stock turbo and other things)

I'm having trouble deciding which one to go with these engines are worlds apart but all the rest of the swap would pretty much be using the same hardware. Trans would be the same either way 6l80e/90e with a marks adapter to the stock T-case. My rig is a 92 so motor mounts are not a bolt in affair either way. With 91-92's having such a small market share no one wants to go through the R/D trouble. I grew up in the muscle car crowd and always love Chevy V8's but i've always wanted to do a diesel swap in this rig since I bought it the first time in 2006.
Here are the pros against each other.
5.3 Pros
Much lighter as its an aluminum block 500lbs vs 730lbs
Makes HP easier and parts can be found anywhere.
Very tunable via ECU
Makes a Cool V8 Sound
Engine ECU will talk to the 6l80E trans internal TCU so no special trans controller is needed
5.3 Cons
Custom Wiring Harness needed
Direct Injection give good MPG but not Diesel Good
More complex of an engine, although that can be a good thing I guess

4bt Pros
Makes TQ easier and parts can be found most places since most parts are 6bt interchangeable
Makes a cool diesel sound
Better MPG
Dirt Simple Engine
4bt Cons
Custom TCU from Gravity Performance needed
Vibration (although I have a plan for that)

5.3 work before going in.
Its fairly high miles and I need to do a DOD delete due to two collapsed DOD lifters. So I have to strip down to the bottom end and replace with a L86 spec non DOD camshaft.... this will bump power about 20-30 HP. Besides a tune the only other mod I might do is a L86 intake and throttle body since I don't have the l83 throttle body and the L86 will increase power and can be found easily and fairly cheap. Also i'm going to do new springs and valve seals on the heads along with new cam bearings while i'm in there.

4BT work before going in.
I will be pulling the 4bt apart and having everything balanced (4bt's are notorious for their rotating assemblies to be extremely out of whack balance wise as it was just meant to be an industrial engine), new bearings all around and rings (may have to do a slight bore with different pistons but i'll figure that out as I go). Bigger turbo that gives me that nice turbo whistle and then a few other supporting mods. ultimately i'll get it to around 400-450 ft/lbs... no clue what the HP would be on that.
Pricewise the 4bt may cost a tad more on work done but not a ton..... the DOD delete kit with cam, springs, valve stem seals, etc... is pretty pricey.

Either way i'm keeping both engines. If the 4bt goes in the cruiser the L83 will most likely go in the bronco. That will also have the added bonus of having the bronco better on the street as its trans is just a Chevy SM435 Manual 4 with no OD but a 7.1 first gear for crawling..... not great for a low reving 4bt for street trips to get togethers. I think i'd be happy with either but since I have both motors right here I just can't decide which one. I have time to decide as my 80 is currently sitting below a tree on @GarnerFJ40 property in NC with the 3fe and A440 gone. I'm in WA now so I still have to get it here. Most likely next year since i'm focusing on renovating a few rooms at my current house to sell up to a property with a shop on it.

 

[csmonette]

Are you planning on using the TorFab kit if you do the Gen V 5.3? My 80 needs a rebuild or a swap so I've been researching what the best/easiest swap will be and their kit looks like the best bet for the Gen V LTs.

 

[xetura]

5.3L all the way. Especially when the TorFab kit exists for $2630. You can just bolt everything in and not have to worry about measuring angles, depth, making mounts, etc. The torque curve on these motors is awesome as well and they're really easy to get more power out of.

One thing about the TorFab kit, they only mention 8 and 10 speed transmissions and I noticed you'll be using a 6l80e/90e. Not sure if that's just the linkage difference or a physical difference. I personally plan on getting the 10 speed.

 

[lt1fire]

Torfab kit won't work for a 92 or a 6l80e

 

[PIP]

You've only got half the equation there.

What do you plan to use the vehicle for?

 

[lt1fire]

You've only got half the equation there.

What do you plan to use the vehicle for?

True but regardless of the answer to that question with the drivetrain and mods already done both engines could be used for the same thing. But what it will be used for is the same thing I used it for with the 3fe for all these years. My go "mostly" anywhere rig. I've driving it across the country twice, its been on trails from Tellico to the Rubicon and most in-between. I camp out of it, "overland" out of it, and do the hardest trails I can find in it as long as I don't think body damage is a foregone conclusion.

 

[NCFJ]

I love diesels, have one in my tractor and our pulling truck. If it works for a living I am all in. Past that, gas it is. You know me Al

 

[PIP]

True but regardless of the answer to that question with the drivetrain and mods already done both engines could be used for the same thing. But what it will be used for is the same thing I used it for with the 3fe for all these years. My go "mostly" anywhere rig. I've driving it across the country twice, its been on trails from Tellico to the Rubicon and most in-between. I camp out of it, "overland" out of it, and do the hardest trails I can find in it as long as I don't think body damage is a foregone conclusion.

My 2 cents-

LS VS 4BT are very different options.

LS is refined, powerful and boring. Rarely will anyone ask you to pop the hood. But you can hear spotters just fine and use fast food drive thru's.

4BT is obnoxious, drivable with a stickshift, you will be asked to pop the hood endlessly, nobody will ever want to ride with you for more than 10 minutes.

Well done LS swapped 80's are in demand and sell for decent money.

4BT swapped 80's typically sell for much less than the value of the parts that went into building them. I have seen 4 sell under $10k in the NW in the past 4 years. That's not a good sign.

From the options you have listed and the use you describe I would choose the 5.3 hands down.

However, I wouldn't recommend a 5.3 80 series to a Cummins fan, I would recommend a 5.9 Cummins.

 

[thatcabledude]

4bt should never be an option for a passenger vehicle.

 

[NCFJ]

The LS puts the Cruise back in Cruiser, if that makes any sense.

 

[ALX4X4]

6.0LS swapped for 10 years now. Oil and filter change only in 10 years.... Nuff' said...

 

[mudgudgeon]

4bt should never be an option for a passenger vehicle.

This^^

As an Aussie that's spent some time in USA, my only experience of a 4bt is hearing the USPS mail van approaching from ¾ of a mile away. Not a chance in hell I'd want my cruiser to sound even slightly like that.

And, I love a diesel.

There's loads of good diesels you could use. Sell the 4bt to some other sucker and buy a good diesel if you really want diesel.

 

[Stoshu]

Do you have the ECU with the 5.3? Reason I ask is that the ECU and TCM need to communicate together. A swap is considerably easier if the engine,ECU, trans,and TCM all came from the same donor.

I'm not even sure a 6L80/90 will work with the GenV ECU without some serious effort, but maybe Im wrong here? Thought all the GenV stuff was either 8 or 10 speed transmissions?

Either way, if you are street driving and cross countrying, the V8 is the far superior choice IMHO. Did an L92 \ 6L80e swap in my 91 a while back and absolutely love it. Modern drivetrain in a perfect platform. Awesome combination!

 

[mjosoba]

4bt should never be an option for a passenger vehicle.

Amen. I came to say the same thing. . It should he 6bt vs L83.

 

[lt1fire]

4bt should never be an option for a passenger vehicle.

This^^

As an Aussie that's spent some time in USA, my only experience of a 4bt is hearing the USPS mail van approaching from ¾ of a mile away. Not a chance in hell I'd want my cruiser to sound even slightly like that.

And, I love a diesel.

There's loads of good diesels you could use. Sell the 4bt to some other sucker and buy a good diesel if you really want diesel.

I used to say this all the time if talking about a full bodied vehicle the noise and vibrations are fine in older vehicles like the bronco of 40's i've driven.... hell I still say this UNLESS the 4bt has been torn apart and balanced. i've now drivien 3 different rigs with a balanced 4bt and it is a night and day difference. I'm not selling the 4bt it is staying in my possesion it is a wonderful motor for the most part.

Amen. I came to say the same thing. . It should he 6bt vs L83.

As stated I have both engines already so the it should be doesn't really matter here. If I could play it should be then it would be a 6bt vs L86

 

[lt1fire]

My 2 cents-

LS VS 4BT are very different options.

LS is refined, powerful and boring. Rarely will anyone ask you to pop the hood. But you can hear spotters just fine and use fast food drive thru's.

4BT is obnoxious, drivable with a stickshift, you will be asked to pop the hood endlessly, nobody will ever want to ride with you for more than 10 minutes.

Well done LS swapped 80's are in demand and sell for decent money.

4BT swapped 80's typically sell for much less than the value of the parts that went into building them. I have seen 4 sell under $10k in the NW in the past 4 years. That's not a good sign.

From the options you have listed and the use you describe I would choose the 5.3 hands down.

However, I wouldn't recommend a 5.3 80 series to a Cummins fan, I would recommend a 5.9 Cummins.

They are very different options.... but they both check all the boxes for what needs to be done, yes a 4bt makes better low end tq for crawling, yes a l83 has a better rpm range for highway use but i'm not building exclusively for either of those.

I probaby should have put my background for both types of motors in my first post and really this post was made as and i'm bored poll to see what people would vote for. I've personally owned and driven either through my own vehicles or company cars 5 LS based cars and one GEN V truck (countless Gen I and Gen II chevy v8s also) and trucks and i'd say close to 15 diesel trucks and cars. Everything from a BEW VW, OM617, OM603, OM606 mercedes, 6.2 6.5 gm, 6.6 Duramax, 8.1 Hino, 12V and 24V cummins, 7.3 and 6.0 Fords, etc. I know the differences between diesel and gas engines.

I personally don't really care about resale value of my vehicles, never had or will, that's not why I buy them. It is a good point to put for other people though and I should have put that in my original post as this was more a what would you do post and I may have made it a more what would Al do post. 4bt swapped 80s traditionally sell for less for a few reasons, most people aren't ready for the noise and vibrations from one and don't do the smart thing and balance it before putting it in. Also a lot of older ones were done with 700R4s which are one of the worst trans ever made in my opinion. People use them because they are simple with no electronics and can be built for fairly cheap but even built they have issues and then let you down. Its only been recently that a 6l80e combo was even possible on a 4bt as no one had made a way to control it. That trans will handle a 4bt and give it much better street manners with its gear selections.

All what you say is valid though.

 

[LandLocked93]

This^^

As an Aussie that's spent some time in USA, my only experience of a 4bt is hearing the USPS mail van approaching from ¾ of a mile away. Not a chance in hell I'd want my cruiser to sound even slightly like that.

And, I love a diesel.

There's loads of good diesels you could use. Sell the 4bt to some other sucker and buy a good diesel if you really want diesel.

I'm imagining an Oz parts yard scattered with useable V8 diesels.
Have no idea if they would even work in an 80, much less equate financially to any other swap or OEM rebuild.

 

[lt1fire]

Do you have the ECU with the 5.3? Reason I ask is that the ECU and TCM need to communicate together. A swap is considerably easier if the engine,ECU, trans,and TCM all came from the same donor.

I'm not even sure a 6L80/90 will work with the GenV ECU without some serious effort, but maybe Im wrong here? Thought all the GenV stuff was either 8 or 10 speed transmissions?

Either way, if you are street driving and cross countrying, the V8 is the far superior choice IMHO. Did an L92 \ 6L80e swap in my 91 a while back and absolutely love it. Modern drivetrain in a perfect platform. Awesome combination!

the majority of the 5.3's came with the 6l80e as they were all in the tahoes and 1/2 ton trucks. Some did come with the bigger trans but I wouldn't touch a 8l90e with a 10 foot pole. They have some serious issues with a class action lawsuit going around. The 10l90E is a great trans but as far as I could find did not come behind the 5.3, only the 6.2 and 6.6 variants.
Mine was infront a a 6l80E in a 2015 1500 Sierra.

 

[xetura]

the majority of the 5.3's came with the 6l80e as they were all in the tahoes and 1/2 ton trucks. Some did come with the bigger trans but I wouldn't touch a 8l90e with a 10 foot pole. They have some serious issues with a class action lawsuit going around. The 10l90E is a great trans but as far as I could find did not come behind the 5.3, only the 6.2 and 6.6 variants.
Mine was infront a a 6l80E in a 2015 1500 Sierra.

L84's have 10l80's from what I've been finding when searching for a swap. 10l90's come on the 6.2L.

 

[lt1fire]

L84's have 10l80's from what I've been finding when searching for a swap. 10l90's come on the 6.2L.

Yep L84's are the L83's replacement for the most part. Started in 2019 but the ecu won't work with my l83.