What’s your opinion on these cam lobes? (1 Viewer)

[brettk]

Story time. I recently purchased a new 1FZ shortblock from Toyota. Instead of going the route of a brand new head, I decided to get a reman from a trusted Land Cruiser shop, who will remain nameless for now (because I might be the one that’s wrong). There’s no local machine shop in the middle of nowhere, so shipping is my only option.

I got the head a couple of weeks ago, and it arrived in less than stellar shape. There was a knick where the distributor goes, but I didn’t think it was all that bad, since it seals inside instead of against the surface…but the cams looked kinda terrible.

I contacted the shop and the owner admitted he didn’t oil them prior to shipping because he didn’t want dust on them, and didn’t think they would flash rust so fast. The head was wrapped in plastic wrap, so to me this seemed like a given. He instructed me to try to rub it down with Kroil and it should come off. Seeing as how my options were kind of limited, I decided to work at it a bit.

Surprisingly, they cleaned up a lot better than I thought they would, but there’s still slight pitting on the cam lobes.

I contacted the shop again, and they said to run it, but they don’t offer warranty. They also said if I returned it, I would be the one to pay return shipping, and they wouldn’t send me another one “because they always run into these problems”.

What are y’all’s thoughts on this? I’ve had really good dealings with this business in the past, and I really want this to work out…but the principle of sending someone a potentially defective product and make them pay return shipping makes me pretty mad. Am I wrong in this?

 

[audi2nr]

The base circle doesn't matter too much, get better pics of the ramps and tips. I'd be upset too though, should have sprayed them with something at least...

 

[UsedLuxury]

I contacted the shop and the owner admitted he didn’t oil them prior to shipping because he didn’t want dust on them, and didn’t think they would flash rust so fast.

They also said if I returned it, I would be the one to pay return shipping, and they wouldn’t send me another one “because they always run into these problems”.

interesting.

 

[COYS]

Given all the money spent on a new short block, it makes little sense to then go half arsed by installing this busted head. Are you really going to be happy even if some online with no wallet in your game votes that it's cool to use?

It should be noted that Toyota FSM states that one should replace the head with new if out of spec. Toyota FSM does not have any documentation supporting a rebuilt/machined head.

Sorry to see this happen, but this too shall pass. Good luck, friend.

 

[brettk]

Given all the money spent on a new short block, it makes little sense to then go half arsed by installing this busted head. Are you really going to be happy even if some online with no wallet in your game votes that it's cool to use?

It should be noted that Toyota FSM states that one should replace the head with new if out of spec. Toyota FSM does not have any documentation supporting a rebuilt/machined head.

Sorry to see this happen, but this too shall pass. Good luck, friend.

You make a lot of great points. I’m a little out of my league here though, so I’m hoping for an overwhelming response either way. To quote the infamous @Ali Ali Ali, “you guys have saved me in the past”. Hopefully my approach is received as being far more humble.

Unfortunately I don’t have the dough to drop on a brand new head. I considered this before I started throwing money around, and was told by a few well respected members that a reman head would be good enough. The shop is a vendor here, so I’m hoping I’ll get enough of a response in this thread to either change their mind on shipping, or my opinion on the head altogether.

@audi2nr, I’ll get better pictures shortly.

 

[fresnoLC]

I would run it, I rebuilt a 1FZ recently and the cams had sat out for a while, head shop cleaned them up and didn't see any issue with running them as is. That guy has done a ton of Toyota heads so I trust his opinion. Mine looked worse than yours after he cleaned them up.

 

[brettk]

The base circle doesn't matter too much, get better pics of the ramps and tips. I'd be upset too though, should have sprayed them with something at least...

All the the ramps and tips looked good except for one over the #1 exhaust.

 

[Railwelder93]

They are just thirsty for some motor oil. I think it’s fine, but I’d probably be a bit disappointed too.

 

[Broski]

I would be unhappy to, It should have shipped with oil or something on the cams to prevent rusting.
It would have been a lot easier to clean some dust then to clean off the rust. that been said it looks like it cleaned up pretty good and I would just run it.
It should have been boxed up good enough to prevent damage to the head ( a wooden crate ) even if they need to charge more for packing JMHO

 

[-Spike-]

Run it. Or get an opinion from a machinist.

 

[KrOswalt]

That head/engine will run for many many miles, I wouldn’t hesitate to run it.

But, you did pay for a head that is supposed to be in new shape. Can’t make a claim against the shipping company for the knick?

 

[BILT4ME]

Did you pay for a roman head that has been surfaced?

What is the measured flatness of the head. If it was shipped in a box and UPS/FEDEX dropped it to gouge it on the distributor hole, there's a fair chance it's not flat.

Did they machine the valves, check valve clearance, install new valve seals? Just what does reman mean here? There are a lot of things that some call reman that are nothing other than cleaning it up and that's not reman.

 

[brettk]

Did you pay for a roman head that has been surfaced?

What is the measured flatness of the head. If it was shipped in a box and UPS/FEDEX dropped it to gouge it on the distributor hole, there's a fair chance it's not flat.

Did they machine the valves, check valve clearance, install new valve seals? Just what does reman mean here? There are a lot of things that some call reman that are nothing other than cleaning it up and that's not reman.

 

[alia176]

I'm curious, can one still purchase camshafts from Toyota? If the cam lobes are the only thing in question, why not simply replace the camshafts? I'm no expert but I didn't see any wear marks on the lobes but then again, I don't have keen eyes for these things. The "finger nail scratch test" oughta show if there are any deep gouges present.

I have a loaded used head in the basement just in case for the zombie apocalypse.

 

[BILT4ME]

View attachment 2954824

that's a legit reman.
My only remaining concern would be flatness, especially after a drop or impact like that.

The rust and pits on the cam lobes are no big deal. The pits can be part of the casting.

 

[brettk]

I'm curious, can one still purchase camshafts from Toyota? If the cam lobes are the only thing in question, why not simply replace the camshafts? I'm no expert but I didn't see any wear marks on the lobes but then again, I don't have keen eyes for these things. The "finger nail scratch test" oughta show if there are any deep gouges present.

I have a loaded used head in the basement just in case for the zombie apocalypse.

They’re about $500 a piece.

 

[brettk]

that's a legit reman.
My only remaining concern would be flatness, especially after a drop or impact like that.

The rust and pits on the cam lobes are no big deal. The pits can be part of the casting.

I’m guessing it was knicked by a forklift, because the outside of the box has that exact same gauge. I’ll check it, and if the flatness is in spec, I’ll probably run it. Thanks amigo.

 

[COYS]

View attachment 2954824

Just a gentle reminder here folks... he bought a new OEM short block. If you're near $4K deep from go, wwyd?

Are they using new OEM parts? What did they do for shims? Are they reusing the lifters? Below is a copy/paste from my head innards parts list. I never like it when they don't explicitly document what parts are being used. It's sloppy.

Part name	Qty	Part #	Price
Cylinder head	1	11101-69107	$1,492.28

Camshaft	1	13502-66010	$484.27
Camshaft 2	1	13501-66020	$484.27

VALVE, EXHAUST	12	13715-66030		$183.24
VALVE, INTAKE	12	13711-66030		$118.44

SPRING, COMPRESSION	24	90501-38006	$181.20
VALVE SPRING RETAINER LOCK	48	90913-03027	$58.08
VALVE SEATS	24	13734-66020	$22.32
VALVE RETAINERS	24	13741-66020	$82.08

valve keeper	48	90913-03027		$44.00
valve seals intake	12	90913-02096		$54.00
valve seals exhaust	12	90913-02105		$59.64
valve lifters	24	13751-66020	$455.64

 

[Zjohnsonua]

#1 - They should have oiled it.

#2 - Clean it. Hit anything that looks out of place with some 1500/2000 grit. Clean it. Run it.

The quantity of issues like these that exist in engines that have sat a while are innumerable. If every engine that had "replace it"-grade issues like these truly needed rebuilding to be functional over the long term then we'd have real problems on our hands.

 

[PIP]

I don't know what to say about the pictures. The work doesn't look bad, but none of the pictures are good enough to show anything. That said, even a crummy looking used camshaft can be spun in a lathe and polished with an abrasive belt to make it look new again. You need an experienced engine rebuilder's opinion. In person. Or you need a decent DSLR camera with good lighting and proper lense to take a real picture of the cam lobes and ramps. As said before the base circle doesn't matter much.

Anyone who stores or ships anything that can corrode doesn't use oil to protect it. They use VCI paper and VCI emitters.

My opinion as a machinist (not engine) and someone who has assembled hundreds of engines is that the vendor not using a VCI product to prevent corrosion is a red flag as is the very vague non-itemized invoice.

When you bought the head the shop should have explained exactly what their interpretation of a cylinder head rebuild entails. That would define the scope of the work they were to do. Then you wouldn't have the question of what interpretation of "rebuilt head" did this vendor ship me? The invoice should have been broken into line items listing the parts used and the machinework completed.