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What's needed?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by Docmallory, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. Docmallory

    Docmallory Guest

    Okay, planning to do the front axle on my '97 LC this spring... I've looked over many of the past threads here, as well as the various assorted web pages describing the job. (I know someone is writing a FAQ on this, but I'm too impatient. Maybe this will help that FAQ writer?)

    When I set aside a weekend to tackle this I want to be sure I'm ready. So, I'm trying to make a list of everything I need and I'd like your help.

    Assume I have no tools. Tell me everything I need to do the front axles right (doing it ALL at once).

    Here's what I have come up with so far:
    Jack
    Jack stands
    Tub for cleaning parts
    Parts degreaser
    brass drift
    hammer
    big ol' screwdriver
    metric sockets
    lots of rags
    fish scale or spring tension gauge
    Factory Service Manual
    Vise
    Moly grease (how much?)
    Gallon of 90W for the diff
    Nev-r-seize
    Torque Wrench
    54mm hub wrench
    T-type seal puller
    snap ring pliers
    big wire for hanging the caliper
    Lots of Toyota parts/seals - this is where I am especially clueless.

    I found this http://65.40.131.223/FZJ80%20front%20axle%20parts.bmp list on the net, but am not sure what to make of it. (careful, it's a HUGE file) :eek:

    More questions:
    - How do the preload measurements (listed as lbf) in the FSM correspond to the measurements on a fish scale? (ie, does 6 lbs on the fish scale mean I have 6lbf?)

    -Is it worthwhile to replace the wheel bearings or just repack them? (BTW, I have a little hum from the front only when turning right at moderate speed - haven't had a chance to jack the front and check for play in the bearings)

    -If I'm going to dedicate a whole weekend to doing this project, and budget is not an issue, are there any other related parts that should be serviced at the same time?

    -At what point should I consider tackling the rear axle seals?

    Thanks for your time and for your help,
    Doc Mallory
     
  2. Junk

    Junk

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    #6
    and knowledge of the search feature :D
     
  3. Big_Moose

    Big_Moose

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    [quote author=DocMallory link=board=2;threadid=13930;start=msg129233#msg129233 date=1080621549]
    More questions:
    - How do the preload measurements (listed as lbf) in the FSM correspond to the measurements on a fish scale? (ie, does 6 lbs on the fish scale mean I have 6lbf?)[/quote]

    Yes, most "fish" scales are calibrated in "foot pounds".

    Replace the wheel & knuckle bearings. Make sure you "pack" the bearings to get ample grease in the rollers

    Unlimited budget - new OEM birfields, spindles, Tie rod ends, and drive flanges (even if budget is limited)

    About 75/90K miles +/-, depending upon previous maintenance. Do this after you have successfully completed / mastered the front axle rebuild

    Additional items............Get all OEM parts through Mr. C-Dan. Use a three to four foot length of pipe with an approximate 1.5" / 2.0" diameter to separate the birfield from inner axle. Make sure the long sided axle tube, axle slide / guide is secure / stays in place, and finally retorque the steering knuckle bearing caps.

    Don't forget the #6's......... :beer: :beer:

    Joe
     
  4. Docmallory

    Docmallory Guest

    [quote author=Junk link=board=2;threadid=13930;start=msg129240#msg129240 date=1080622328]
    and knowledge of the search feature :D
    [/quote]

    Sorry, Junk, but we all know how fickle the Mistress of Search can be. She had her way with me and tossed me aside like yesterday's news. Broken. Empty. Nothing to show for the hours I spent wooing her. :'(

    - And in fact I have been bookmarking relevant threads for the past couple of months as I run across them. I even manually scanned back about 87 pages into the archives. Nowhere could I find a comprehensive and clear listing of exactly what is needed.
     
  5. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    Some stuff you not have mentioned:

    you will need something to drive in the axle seals, I first tried using a socket but my biggest was slightly smaller than the OD of the seal this slightly caved the metal portion of the first seal I tried to install, the seal is weaker on the inside and stronger where the metal makes the bend along its OD, so the round object you use to drive it should be larger than its OD, I made a driver out of 2 aluminum disks 1/4” thick about 2.25” diameter stacked and screwed to the end of a brass drift, very similar to a tool someone posted here before

    you will also need medical style disposable gloves, I prefer the nitrile ones they don't melt in kerosene (I use it for rough de-greasing) like latex ones do

    you will also need a gasket scraper, I use a very sturdy craftsman putty knife that I sharpen with 400grit paper on a flat surface as a gasket scraper

    I think I used 4 tubes of molly grease and a little over one tube of wheel bearing grease but I am not 100% sure on that, I had 6 tubes of molly on hand for the repack to ensure I had enough

    several rolls of paper towels

    parts cleaning brush and a used tooth brush for detail areas both to be used with your degreaser of choice

    I found 2 cleaning tubs handy, parts go in the first bath of kero to knock the big stuff off , the first bath get saturated with grease/grime quickly then parts go to the second kero bath to get clean, blow the residual off with compressed air and then use brake cleaner to remove all traces of kerosene

    when the second stage gets nasty it is the new first stage, the old first stage goes in the used oil container and the tub refilled with clean kero it is now the second stage

    a parts cleaner would be very handy for big nasty jobs like this but I don't have room to store one for the few time I would need it

    if you are going to check the Knuckle preload than you will need something to remove the tie rods from the steering arms, I used a 2 arm puller, worked great this step may not be necessary, from what i hear no one that has checked the knuckle preload has had to adjust it, (including me) if the factory shims are installed where they came from you will probably be OK without checking, I would hate to be that 1 in 100 (1,000?) that needed to check but did not

    took me 3 days (split between 2 weekends) now that i have all the tooling and experience I could probably do it in one long day (dawn till bedtime)

    jack the truck up as high as your stands will safely do, I set mine just higher than it would sit with tires on and my back was killing me from being hunched over, working parts from the workbench where possible (decreasing, installing races, packing bearings) gave a much needed break

    I used a bearing packer makes that job much easier and reliability fills the bearing with grease

    I recommend separating the birf, some do not do this, there is a pretty big void in there that would be hard to clean/fill with grease without doing so, if you do separate them you will need new axle clips (not part of standard parts kit)

    contact C-dan about the parts not only is he cheaper but he knows exacltly what you need
     
  6. inacoma

    inacoma

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    ...as far as parts...

    buy the kits from MAF (for front or rear, they are the cheapest)
    ...Do NOT use their seals...use OEM from CDAN or your favorite other discount toyota dealer. Here are those part numbers:

    > Front Axle:
    > (2) Inner Axle Seal 90310-35010 (Last kit I ordered
    > from MAF had the OEM seal...but can't always guarantee that)
    > (2) Dust Seal 90313-93003
    > (2) Hub Seal 90311-62001

    Kumar
     
  7. Rich

    Rich

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    [quote author=Warthog link=board=2;threadid=13930;start=msg129244#msg129244 date=1080622667]
    ...
    Yes, most "fish" scales are calibrated in "foot pounds"
    ...[/quote]

    Better brush up on how to measure torque. :slap:
     
  8. lovetoski

    lovetoski SILVER Star

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    Some other things that might be helpful...
    A friend who's done it before.
    Brake disc cleaner (your hands will be greasy, even with the rubber gloves on)
    Coathanger to hang the brake calipers on the springs
    4 lbs of moly grease

    The first axle I did, I did one side at a time because I was worried I'd forget how it all went back together. In hindsight, this was not a reasonable thing to worry about.

    The second axle I did, I took each side apart simultaneously. The time savings is noticable. For each step, you'll need different tools. Once you have the tools out that you need for a specific step, you might as well drag them over to the other side and repeat the same step. Efficient tool managment saves time. Plus, you don't get up and down as often, and that saves a ton of pain on back/knees.

    As I dissembled the axle, I laid out the parts in order, with the DS on the left side of my bench, and the PS on the right side of my bench. I kept everything organized by side throughout the process. After everything was cleaned, it's a simple process to take all the new parts and "bench test" them to make sure you know how it all goes back together. Easier to do when standing up in good light than while schrunched over under the truck.

    I purchased a cheap parts washer at Shucks for $50. It doesn't take up that much space, and worked great.

    Hope this helps.
     
  9. tucker74

    tucker74 Moderator

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    You will need 4 tubes of molly for the birfs and one tube of high temp for the wheel bearings - I did mine over two days (one diss. and cleaning, next reassymbly) with plenty of time. Just ping 'Cdan for the parts - he has a kit that he puts together that saves you some money. I would recommend wheel bearings and trunions while you are in there (don't want to do this again for a while!). Here's a link to my recent adventure....

    Good luck!

    Tucker

    BTW - I've got all the Timken bearing numbers which can be sourced locally and save you quite a bit if you're interested...just ping me.
     
  10. PHAEDRUS

    PHAEDRUS

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    Uhmmmm
    My suggestion would be to find an old office rolling chair and make it really short. saves the knees and the back and as opposed to mechanics stools you have a back to lean against when you need to stretch.
    otherwise you can get the bearings from just aobut anyone Dan is a great guy but I got mine from somewhere else. timken on the wheels and koyo on the trunion. Buy a good 54 mm socket not the peice of crap from man a fre. make sure you have a torque wrench wich will read low enough for your needs.
    Dave
     
  11. moralien

    moralien

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    I noticed you mentioned drift but you can never go wrong with a quality brass hammer.
     
  12. mabrodis

    mabrodis

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    You're on the right track, a gung-ho attitude is necessary also, which can be congered up when you think how what you're doing is like $1000+ at a dealership... :beer:

    Also helpful is a friend you can call, or better yet, one who will get his ass over there and help you who has done it before, so when you're like how the hell does this come out, he can stop surfing porn and come over point to a few things and wander back to the computer... :mad:

    I did this and took a bunch of pictures, after doing it I wished I had taken even more pictures, but my camera can only handle so much grease on it (wrapping a camera in saran wrap is a very good idea if you want to take some pics, just not over the lens).

    http://www.colorado4x4.net/tech/knuckle_rebuild/knuckle_rebuild.html
    Good Luck,
    Mark Brodis
     
  13. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    -I would consider replacing your rotors and brake pads and maybe your calipers while doing this job. It is very easy to do while you are in there. A week before starting the job, pull both front wheels, and check pad wear and condition of rotors. Look for uneven pad wear that could be caused by a sticky caliper. Order what you need.

    Decide whether you will replace your wheel bearings and kingpin bearings or not. I would. You can get the wheel bearings from any bearing seller (check yellow pages) much cheaper than from Toyota (less than half the price). The knuckle bearings are special order (there is a post about this if you search) but can be had cheaper. Otherwise, I would rely on C-Dan for all parts. Forget MAF.

    -order an extra inner oil seal for security. They are slightly tricky to seat. For $1.35, you are covered if you accidentily trash one. Also, I would use a piece of wood wittled to the outer diameter of the oil seal to seat them. Another option is a short piece of 1.5" ABS pipe so long as you cut both ends very square.

    -definitely use a brass hammer as well as the drift.

    -get lots of brakeleen
     
  14. Rookie2

    Rookie2

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    Seems like I remember Lock-tite for the studs securing the steering arm (??), that have a tendency to be loosened during this process.

    Rookie2.
     
  15. inacoma

    inacoma

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    [quote author=inacoma link=board=2;threadid=13930;start=msg129288#msg129288 date=1080629107]
    ...as far as parts...

    buy the kits from MAF (for front or rear, they are the cheapest)

    [/quote]

    MAF RAISED their prices after this post. I Just ordered an all japan made kit from Marlin, will compare the seals with OEM...if it works out, than this would be the best deal...shoot it's the best deal even if the seals are bunk. Chris Geiger...he's a nice fella.


    Kumar
     
  16. wob

    wob

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    [quote author=inacoma link=board=2;threadid=13930;start=msg131368#msg131368 date=1080884498]
    MAF RAISED their prices after this post.
    [/quote]

    Typical

    :-\
     
  17. e9999

    e9999 You want to do what...? Moderator

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    think some hidden powers are monitoring us...?
    shudder!
    E
     
  18. Rookie2

    Rookie2

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    So why aren't you using C'dan?? Seems kind of tacky to be shopping out a man that's selling his product to us at cost and contributes as much as he does to the forum. Plus you know your getting what you need.

    Help me understand your logic. What contributions do MAF or Marlin make to the site?? Or are your decisions strictly based on price?


    Rookie2
     
  19. MoJ

    MoJ Moderator

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    I'm attempting a wheel bearing re-pack this weekend. Is the grease type recommended in the FSM good? Anyone got any certain favorites?
     
  20. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    [quote author=Rookie2 link=board=2;threadid=13930;start=msg131602#msg131602 date=1080930742]
    So why aren't you using C'dan?? Seems kind of tacky to be shopping out a man that's selling his product to us at cost and contributes as much as he does to the forum. Plus you know your getting what you need.

    Help me understand your logic. What contributions do MAF or Marlin make to the site?? Or are your decisions strictly based on price?


    Rookie2

    [/quote]


    Well, it aint cost.....BUT it aint LIST either. :D I make just enough to cover the expense of handling the stuff and it gives me an excuse to have it on the shelf in case I need it for myself ;)