What will the next gen ATRAC be?

Discussion in '100-Series Cruisers' started by FirstToy, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. FirstToy

    FirstToy

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    I was thinking of how they would improve the ATRAC system for the next LC.
    the history as I know:
    -ATRAC
    -ATRAC II
    -ATRAC II+
    -ATRAC III or II++ (?) FJ Cruiser, I read they improved the ATRAC and added the RR DIFF LOCK so it's a great combo.

    For the next LC wagon, I was thinking how cool it would be if FR/RR DIFF LOCK were integrated into the ATRAC system (w/ dash override buttons of course).

    That way, when the wheels detect slippage- 1. ATRAC kicks in... still slipping 2. DIFF Lockers automatically engage... first RR, then FR as needed.
    Seems like it would be cool if the lockers were integrated into the ATRAC, since lockers are a traction control device.

    Of course, a dash FF/RR locker switch would be good too.
    I think that would be a pretty wicked package!
     
  2. rzpapp

    rzpapp

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    Heck if you're gonna dream why not have future LC come with computer controller air lockers front rear and center which lock based on axle slipage.
     
  3. FirstToy

    FirstToy

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    rzpapp, that would be cool. Actually for the lockers to keep up w/ the speed of the ATRAC it would almost have to be air lockers... unless they can come up w/ electric that is as fast.

    That would be cool though, like the TRD offroad pkg- can you imagine? ARB FR/RR Lockers,ATRAC, CDL all integrated. I was thinking it makes sense for a luxury wagon- to have it all seamlessly integrated into the atrac system.
     
  4. hoser

    hoser SILVER Star

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    Might as well throw in CTIS in there as well. Vary pressure according to terrain.
     
  5. tabraha

    tabraha Hello My Name is: TAD SILVER Star

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    I figured diff locks were riding off into the sunset via mall cruiser market demands, but fortunately I think they may have a future as a factory option. After seeing the new Nissan Frontier and Chevy Z-71 commercials touting that they have an available rear diff-lock maybe this will help Mr. T not scrap the diff locks for the US market just yet.

    I'd still like to see them remain manually activated as opposed to computer controlled. Vehicle dynamics can change dramatically when a diff-lock is engaged while on the move. I wouldn't want one engaging 100% all of the sudden.
     
  6. rzpapp

    rzpapp

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    ...Ahh but all knowing computer would know when and for exactly how long. Same argument with ABS sure a pro can do peddle modulations, but nothing beats computer controlled 4-channel ABS... but there should be a Manual overide for us "old timers" ;)
     
  7. ShottsUZJ100

    ShottsUZJ100

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    I'd NEVER want a TRAC system that automatically locked a locker. Never.
     
  8. rzpapp

    rzpapp

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    Shotts I am sure YOU wouldn't. But what I was thinking is that a computer would be able to analyze the foward progress of the vehicle, angle of attack and wheel spin and be able to engage the lockers along with throttle control to keep the vehicle moving. A simular concept is engaged on the ML class with its open diffs and for channel ABS acting to stop wheel spin. This is simular except more efficent and does not abuse the brake pads.
     
  9. ShottsUZJ100

    ShottsUZJ100

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    ML OPEN diffs = yes

    Locked diffs = no

    I've been places where locking has slid me sideways and TRAC did not.

    I'm remembering:

    off camber spots
    icy roads
    snowy roads

    If a locker is locked at the wrong time you could be in for big trouble. No thanks (my opinion)
     
  10. tabraha

    tabraha Hello My Name is: TAD SILVER Star

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    I understand what you're saying with the ABS but engaging lockers in significant motion is just dangerous even with human judgement. Maybe it would be possible in low range with wheelspeeds under 10mph or something but anything with speed could get nasty in a hurry. Trac already controls those situations quite well anyways.
     
  11. rzpapp

    rzpapp

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    I think your missing the point... for those of you think about when you engage lockers. Hopefully its not very frequently and I hope its not when you going down the freeway at 70mph. I envision a computer controlled locker incorporated inton a TRAC system. Not replacing a TRAC system. The lockers actually usage in the entire system would be only in the most extreme of cicumstances, a subset of even when we use lockers manually today. And in circumstances when manual application is not practical since the duration needed is to small.
     
  12. dclee

    dclee

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    The situations where a locker would work as intended are so varied that I don't think you can rely on a computer to control this. Sure, if TRAC engages a little too judiciously, what's the consequence? The truck slows down. If ABS engages a little too judiciously, the truck slows down. All err on the side of safety. On the other hand, if lockers engage a little too judiciously...

    Hmm, am I agreeing with John on this? :flipoff2:

    Personally, I prefer to go the other way: manually engaged cable lockers, no electrons required! :cheers: Toyota had `em, just not sure how to convert my factory lockers...
     
  13. FirstToy

    FirstToy

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    I think it would be good still... it would not work unless in 4LO, under 5mph type deal. Like DAC.

    So if the ATRAC engages and it is still slipping, it would lock and gain traction for a bit and then disengage. dunno, seems like a natural progression to me?

    Also, I always thought a maual override (or manual engagement) should always be a option...
    maybe too many buttons at this point.
     
  14. player

    player

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    The reason I love my 73 LC so much is the sheer simplicity. Sure, computers and things are great, and I love em, but there comes a point when they're just too smart for their own good. When it comes to off roading, I want everything manual. That means a manual tranny, xfer case, lockers. Even the PTO winch is "manual" in a sense. My grandfather's '90 Ranger had the Low Range shift motor burn out and we had to drive from the camp trail back to our home @ 20mph. Luckily we live Hawaii, so not toooo far of a drive. Still, if it were my Cruiser, I could've just slap my s*** back into High Range and be on my merry way. There are times when you need to defy the logic of the people who programed the 4x4 systems, and an automated system won't allow that. When it comes to things like this, there should always be a manual override, at the minimum a computer override.
    -Trevor
     
  15. ShottsUZJ100

    ShottsUZJ100

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  16. FirstToy

    FirstToy

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  17. ShottsUZJ100

    ShottsUZJ100

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  18. Ocelot

    Ocelot

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    I'm going to have to agree with shotts as well... what is this world coming to!

    The best system would be Trac with Manually controlled & selectable Center/Rear/Front Lockers, pretty much the setup shotts has on his 100 right now.

    The last thing you want is computer controlled lockers, for all the reasons mentioned above, and the fact that they would work no better than trac for the purpose you describe. You just know you are going to break something with a setup like that, and it would be terribly unreliable. As well it is way to easy to fool a computer.

    Maybe a system similar to the mega cruiser with Center/Front/Rear Torsen limited slips, with TRAC, and Selectable lockers for the Center/Front/Rear... that'd be pretty kick a$$.
     
  19. ShottsUZJ100

    ShottsUZJ100

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    Dang. I'm printing out this thread and posting it to my website. :D
     
  20. rzpapp

    rzpapp

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    What I was describing, a ATRAC woth air locking diffs, is similuar to the Hummer H1 torsen LSD set up. The Hummers torsen LSD are high torque biased so that with a little breaking pressure you achieve lock. With an ATRAC and computer controlled air lockers. The ATRAC would continue to distribute the torque by modulating the ABS system. Simulr to how the LSD works but in extreme instances will go fully locked when needed. The advantage over the Hummer setup is that its computer controlled vs the mechanical torsen LSD and has the reliabilty and quickness of air lockers. Something the Hummer H1 can not do is lock with out brake pressure (reducing effect and power). The LC would could go to full lock with out losing power and instant on and off, applying the lock only as long as its needed.

    I know this may sound uncomfortable to many who are used to engaging lockers manually. But you must realize that when you run locked you only need to be for moments or seconds during the obstical run. The rest of the time an open diff or ATRAC would work just fine.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2005
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