What thermostat with supercharger - new info (1 Viewer)

[bmegdal]

I have followed all the threads here about cooling on 80-series with SC, and agreed that the 190 thermostat made sense, as the 160 TRD recommends would only delay overheating a bit, and the engine was designed to run at 190.

BUT, I had a long talk this morning with Bob Garner, who is the Supercharger guru at TRD, and I think deisgned the system for the 80-series. He says that they changed to a 160 not because of cooling, but rather because their tests indicated improved performance with the 160. He thinks it is because the compressed air from the supercharger is already warmer than normal, so the engine is operating warmer in certain ways than the 160 would lead you to believe.

I may change back and try to get some performance numbers....

 

[NeverFinis]

Could you ask him if TRD plans on a new S/C for our trucks? Right now, the S/C is unavalaible.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I have followed all the threads here about cooling on 80-series with SC, and agreed that the 190 thermostat made sense, as the 160 TRD recommends would only delay overheating a bit, and the engine was designed to run at 190.

BUT, I had a long talk this morning with Bob Garner, who is the Supercharger guru at TRD, and I think deisgned the system for the 80-series. He says that they changed to a 160 not because of cooling, but rather because their tests indicated improved performance with the 160. He thinks it is because the compressed air from the supercharger is already warmer than normal, so the engine is operating warmer in certain ways than the 160 would lead you to believe.

I may change back and try to get some performance numbers....

An interesting claim/observation. How much of a gain and what tests would be my questions. As a rule, intercooling has a larger effect than lowering engine temperature wrt compressing air. What I can see is a lower engine thermostat causing less radiator fan drag. Or, possibly a better fuel mixture because the ECU temp sender is reading lower...

Using that logic, I would think you would need to change the radiator fan thermostat to realize this gain fully. If the goal is to control heat, pick an engine temp, and stick to it. Here, if only changing the engine thermostat to 160, you have a pretty wide 'normal' operating range.

I tried several times over the years to run engines 'cooler'. Rarely if ever is there a measured performance gain. I would add, that if you do run the 160 Tstat, you increase the oil change interval.

If you have access to his ear again, it might be interesting to ask him about the PCV routing to the prechamber of the SC. It certainly appears it was done for the CARB compliance, and not included in the kit. In my discussions with Magnuson and Eaton, the modified PCV routing has performance gains as well.

SJ
'94 FZJ80 Supercharged

 

[landtank]

the modified PCV routing has performance gains as well.

I can't believe you would notice a difference from this change.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Could you ask him if TRD plans on a new S/C for our trucks? Right now, the S/C is unavalaible.

I have heard it is being redesigned. I was skeptical since it would be for 10yo+ vehicles, but the source works for Toyota.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I can't believe you would notice a difference from this change.

Tip in throttle response was noticeable right away, so was oil consumption reduction. And amazingly enough, with a SC the closed loop PCV thru the SC actually 'helps' the performance of the SC... that's from both Magnuson and Eaton.

And it's now CARB compliant to EOD425-7

SJ

 

[Dusty]

I wonder if the 160 tstat allows better water flow when open than the 180.

 

[landtank]

Tip in throttle response was noticeable right away, so was oil consumption reduction. And amazingly enough, with a SC the closed loop PCV thru the SC actually 'helps' the performance of the SC... that's from both Magnuson and Eaton.

And it's now CARB compliant to EOD425-7

SJ

What's amazing is that you can actually claim a performance gain that is noticeable after moving a 3/8" hose pre compressor but when I and others post about gains from my MAF assembly you immediately call BS and then start threads dedicated to trashing it.

You like your mod, that's great. I don't see that making a noticeable difference. How about a couple of dyno runs to substantiate it.

 

[SUMOTOY]

What's amazing is that you can actually claim a performance gain that is noticeable after moving a 3/8" hose pre compressor but when I and others post about gains from my MAF assembly you immediately call BS and then start threads dedicated to trashing it.

You like your mod, that's great. I don't see that making a noticeable difference. How about a couple of dyno runs to substantiate it.

Rick
I claim I notice a gain in tip in throttle response and lower oil consumption, neither of which I suspect a dyno run would reflect? Eaton and Magnuson claim the SC benefits from PCV routed this way.

WRT your MAF "mod", I question *HP* claims you made wtihout a dyno, and don't agree with your application of variable injector fuel pressure differential on an ECU with software calibrated to have injector fuel pressure differential as a constant.

Back to the topic of water temp in this thread? Dusty, the thermostat is just open sooner, it's not physically open 'more', the only difference is opening temp and fully open temp. The downside to this mod, is that a 160F Tstat can cause more moisture buildup in the oil by definition.

SJ

 

[bmegdal]

Future of superchargers

I did get to communicate with Bob Garner again, and he said the future of the 80-series superchargers is unclear, due to low demand.

As for the discussion about PCV routing, I am not sure I understand the issue, but he said that CruiserDan is the one to talk to.

Can someone explain what the PCV issue is?

Thanks

 

[bmegdal]

PCV Mod

Never mind my request for an explanation...I found the PCV 101 thread. Bob Garner said they did it the way they did because they could just connect to the OEM fitting.....