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welds

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by lowtideride, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. lowtideride

    lowtideride

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    im pretty new to welding, but im trying to get rid of the rust in the bed of my fj60 and when im patching the sheet metal back together i always melt thru it, i have a stick welder not a mig...im using 3/32 sticks at about 60 amps or was it volts i cant remember.. if there is any tips you guys could give me about stick welding would be great...thanks-al
     
  2. Texican

    Texican s-Moderator

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    Very few experenced welders can weld thin stuff with a stick. IF you can clamp a temp piece of very thick stock on the back side this will work, it may stick, but a couple of raps with a hammer will free it.
    Butch
     
  3. hammerhead

    hammerhead

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    I am an experienced welder and here's my advice: Don't waste your time. MIG and TIG are capable of welding cans together but stick is for thicker materials. An acetylene torch would have a better chance than a stick.
     
  4. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    I agree with hammerhead...

    Do not waste your time with this set up. Save your cash,(and frustrations) and get a little wire feed machine. They are really not that spendy, and you will be blown away at the difference it makes.

    -Steve
     
  5. reorx

    reorx

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    You'll definately be happier with a wire-feed welder. If you are going to do sheet metal repair, I'd get that is both flux-cored and MIG, as gas shielded 0.023" wire is mighty fine to work with... :D

    I have a Hobart Handler 135, and think its a good starter machine that can be had for cheap on ebay from the welding suppliers who sell there...
     
  6. dd113

    dd113

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    I can sort of do it with the rods. One trick is to clean the hell out of all surfaces with a wire brush on a grinder. it takes a delicate touch with low voltage. Go MIG for this. TIG is too much money for most.
     
  7. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    That's what I've been doing on the FJ55 for the last few days when I have time. I've been using a borrowed MIG welder with flux core wire. The trick I found is to make sure you're welding to solid metal, keep the heat down and take your time. Cut away until the metal is clean of rust on both sides.
    I had never welded prior to this either but the welds are looking better all the time! :flipoff2:
    I'm leaving the roof swap for the end when I've had all the experience I'll get from this project.
    :cheers:
     
  8. hammerhead

    hammerhead

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    MIG is definately the way to go. The only reason I mentioned the TIG is because I alredy have a couple. It would not be cost effective for most people to get setup with TIG. Also not as easy to learn. The little MIGs or wire feeds as they are sometimes called are awesome for their purposes. For panel welding the .023 (I use R70S6) wire with 75/25 Gold Gas(probably called something else in other areas) works wonders. You can get setup for a few hundred if you shop around. Do the math. It pays for itself the second or third time you don't have to pay someone else to do the work. Wait, what am I saying? Nevermind that. Go ahead and bring it to my shop and I'll do your welding for you and relieve you of the burden of all that extra cash you have just floating around. Hehehe.
     
  9. dd113

    dd113

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    [quote author=hammerhead link=board=1;threadid=7100;start=msg58782#msg58782 date=1067930363]
    MIG is definately the way to go. The only reason I mentioned the TIG is because I alredy have a couple. It would not be cost effective for most people to get setup with TIG. Also not as easy to learn. The little MIGs or wire feeds as they are sometimes called are awesome for their purposes. For panel welding the .023 (I use R70S6) wire with 75/25 Gold Gas(probably called something else in other areas) works wonders. You can get setup for a few hundred if you shop around. Do the math. It pays for itself the second or third time you don't have to pay someone else to do the work. Wait, what am I saying? Nevermind that. Go ahead and bring it to my shop and I'll do your welding for you and relieve you of the burden of all that extra cash you have just floating around. Hehehe.
    [/quote]

    No, bring it to my shop. I have a spool gun. Ohooooo!! Stainless, Alum! :flipoff2:

    The whole trick to panel welding is you need gas and practice. Flux core just wont do it.

    Just buy any $400 MIG then go to Holox or BOC and buy a tank and a regulator; around $250.

    Unless you pay more and get a 3 phase it will not do 3/8" but most all of them will do 1/4" @ 120V single.
     
  10. hammerhead

    hammerhead

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    Aaaaahahaha

    :D Dave - ain't tools just bitchin'? 8)
     
  11. Degnol

    Degnol

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    Has anybody used the copper backing to weld holes in sheetmetal? I had a perf windshield ezcept somebidy had drilled a hole in the "gutter" on each side to mount mirrors or lights, buddy of mine clamps a piece of 1/4" copper on the backside of the hole and welds the damn thing closed. Copper won't stick, very little grinding.
    There are some very thin wires for sheet metal, like .017, never tried to push them through my mig, you might need a spool gun, but they require much less heat, so fewer burn thru's and less warpage.
    I do use 75% CO2/25%Argon and you do get a lot less heat, but good penetration. For thick stuff I use straight CO2.
    GL
    Ed Long
     
  12. hammerhead

    hammerhead

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    That procedure is widely used and is called a chill pad or backer. It must be a dissimilar metal like copper or aluminum for backing up steel. Steel or copper for alum...You get the idea. Works great for filling drilled holes in panels (like where my PO mounted unidentifiable bracket on tub). The .017 is a pain and unnecasary unless you're welding tinfoil. The .023 is adequate and most machines are already setup to run it. You can get scrap to practice onso you're "zeroed in" before you start burning on your pet project.

    E
     
  13. Degnol

    Degnol

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    Good to know, Hammah, only advice given to me by a welder at the UP Locomotive shop, not a bodyman. But with sheetmetal, heat is your enemy...warp and burn through. I've PERSONALLY done both of those. I use .o23, cause it's what's available locally and I use it on most everything, so no wire changes.
    Most of the crap I've had burnthru problems with have been rustier than I thought, that is why I cut my patch panels oversized and try to get back on something solid. IMHO, the thinner it is, the cleaner it needs to be.
    Thank God I do not have a receipt for .017 wire!!!
    Ed Long :)
     
  14. Gumby

    Gumby Supamod Staff Member s-Moderator

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    I use 75/25 argon/O2 with .023 in my Millermatic 130 and 100% Co2 in my big 220 hobart with .035. The little guy does sheet very nicely. The big bastard gets a little spattery, but the kids burn through the gas and the Argon mix is a little spendy to have left on overnight. :doh:
    Stick welding blows. i'd rather braze sheet metal.
     
  15. Diablo623

    Diablo623

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    If you want to start fabbing anything, a good machine is the best investment you can make. I'm running a Lincoln 200 mig with a 150 cf tank of 75/25, .035 wire, runs off of 250 volt. BEST and I mean BEST!! money I ever spent. If you plan on doing alot of fab work in the future, save your money and get a decent machine. I agree with the others that stick just blows!!!
     
  16. Degnol

    Degnol

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    Actually, Gumby, the mix costs me more than a bottle of straight Argon OR CO2, unless I'm getting ripped.
    I am WAY a novice, but I don't get as much Turkey sh!t with the mix as I do with straight CO2. I need all the help I can get. ;)
    Ed
     
  17. brian

    brian SILVER Star

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    actaully he has a stick machine, which can also be used as a TIG power source, just reverse the polarity and pick up a few things.
    a bottle of argon, flow meter and tig torch with the power cable, is all he would need to tig. now of course it would'nt have high freq(which is needed for alu but not black or ss) or a foot pedal, neither of which would be NEEDED for body work.

    and mixed gas's will cost more than a bottle of straight gas. there's more work in getting the right amount of each in the jug as compared to just filling a bottle with one gas....
     
  18. Jman

    Jman

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    I just noticed last night that Eastwood is advertising Clarke 130 amp MIG welder with regulator, helmet, and cart for $399. Anyone familiar with Clarke?

    I know the Lincoln MIG-Pak 10 is about $100 more than that, and doesn't come with a cart. I will not be doing that much welding, so not looking to spend big bucks, but I have had NO luck looking for small used machines--nobody's getting rid of them.

    The copper backing is a great trick--I don't know much about welding, but I saw a guy do that and it was, well, magical.
     
  19. billmc

    billmc

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    [quote author=Jman link=board=1;threadid=7100;start=msg59484#msg59484 date=1068083775]
    I know the Lincoln MIG-Pak 10 is about $100 more than that, and doesn't come with a cart. I will not be doing that much welding, so not looking to spend big bucks, but I have had NO luck looking for small used machines--nobody's getting rid of them.
    [/quote]

    Jman

    Have you looked in Wantadvertiser and Want Ad Digest for the NJ area? I see small MIG welders for sale in every issue in the Boston area.

    Bill
     
  20. Junk

    Junk

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    Jman,
    I have a nice lil tig and several guys in our club have migs. You can stop by and use them any time you want.

    If you're determined to buy, then either pick up a used one, or go to the next Miller show in Swedesboro - cause they always have specials.[​IMG] :flipoff2: