Water to air intercooler (1 Viewer)

[Cañonero]

Ok, but, if so, I will never get even half of that 920 CFM allowed by the intercooler.

My worry is, as a consequence of that and the big air temperature drop, will I have a big pressure drop with the 6x8 intercooler?.

I could compensate the pressure drop by putting up turbo pressure to the original psi (or to the 12 psi recommended by denco), but even if the boost pressure in the turbo is safe, it will have to turn at much higher rpm rate and that could dramatically wear the turbo, couldn't it?

 

[Dougal]

Some trucks use engine coolant with water-to-air intercoolers. Plumb outlet of the radiator through intercooler into block. You'll get heating of intake air when not boosting, but that's not a major concern imo. Flow of water through the intercooler must obviously be good. Opinions?

Yes you are correct, but mainly on older machinery, the newer ones are primarily air/air.

In my family there's a 40 ton International bulldozer with an air/water cooler plumbed into the engine cooling system. You need at least 15psi boost before such a system becomes any use, otherwise your engine coolant can be hotter than the boost and warms the air instead.
On this dozer it's integrated into the cooling system and couldn't be split out easily.

Many cummins 4BTA engines also had an air/water cooler (JWAC I think they call them) plumbed into the cooling system. But plumbing those into a seperate system seems quite straightforward.

 

[Dougal]

Spent the evening calculating Turbo outlet temps for the Garrett GT3082R @ 70F/21C ambient and from what I can work out at 9psi the outlet temp should be around 180F/82C at 15psi the outlet temp rises to 227F/108C.

Now if the intercooler is as good as I hope we should be looking at some good results.
If I have done my math right and built a intercooler that works.

Calcs using this.
Turbocharger Compressor Calculations

Would you like a copy of my turbo sizing spreadsheet? Just in case you've got more exciting things to spend your evenings on.

But yes your numbers agree, so the maths was good.

 

[Tapage]

My worry is, as a consequence of that and the big air temperature drop, will I have a big pressure drop with the 6x8 intercooler?.

sure a pressure drop .. how much it's the question and sure directly related with the turbo lag .. but anycase isn't a race build .. isn't it ?

If any of 2PSI drop you can compensate it with more boost .. but he lag .. there is when you can't compensate.

 

[Dougal]

If any of 2PSI drop you can compensate it with more boost .. but he lag .. there is when you can't compensate.

Turn up the fuel. Faster spool and the intercooler will give you the extra air density to burn the fuel.
Hope the engine can take it.

 

[Tapage]

Turn up the fuel. Faster spool and the intercooler will give you the extra air density to burn the fuel.
Hope the engine can take it.

unless you get in the red zone of the water temp gauge .. like me

 

[Cañonero]

Wow, you are starting to scare me.

I thought that, the bigger the intercooler, the lower the engine temperature, but I hadn't thought about that, too much air need too much fuel.

My idea was to get an EGT gauge, measure before installing the intercooler, and then turn up the boost pressure little by little until getting to (or better under) the original EGT.

But I'm worried that, with such a big intercooler, I will pay engine reliability to get engine performance.

By the way, I calculated the volume of the 4x10 denco barrel and it is 125.6 cubic inches vs the 226 cubic inches of the 6x8. I don't think is a dramatic difference, but is very noticiable.

What do you think?, I tell you that the price is really good and the intercooler is in superb condition. It'd be a pity if i lost the opportunity, but if I'm going to risk the engine or make it wear faster, I better spend a little more and get a more reasonable intercooler size.

What would you do?

 

[Dougal]

Wow, you are starting to scare me.

I thought that, the bigger the intercooler, the lower the engine temperature, but I hadn't thought about that, too much air need too much fuel.

My idea was to get an EGT gauge, measure before installing the intercooler, and then turn up the boost pressure little by little until getting to (or better under) the original EGT.

But I'm worried that, with such a big intercooler, I will pay engine reliability to get engine performance.

By the way, I calculated the volume of the 4x10 denco barrel and it is 125.6 cubic inches vs the 226 cubic inches of the 6x8. I don't think is a dramatic difference, but is very noticiable.

What do you think?, I tell you that the price is really good and the intercooler is in superb condition. It'd be a pity if i lost the opportunity, but if I'm going to risk the engine or make it wear faster, I better spend a little more and get a more reasonable intercooler size.

What would you do?

An intercooler will lower your EGT's if you don't change the fuel settings. The increase in density will more than make up for the pressure loss. Unless you're only running single figures of boost, in which case an intercooler isn't needed.

I think Tapage's heating issue is a reminder that the original cooling system was designed around the original power levels. If you want 50% more power then you'll be generating at least 50% more heat as well.

But if you run with the original power level, an intercooler will help the engine stay cool.

 

[awill4x4]

Even tickled Awill4x4's interest to the point he bought 12 Laminova cores just to play with. His will be better than mine

I'm getting Darren to buy the last of them Matt, that will give me 20 of them in total.
I'm just trying to corner the world Laminova market
Regards Andrew.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

I'm getting Darren to buy the last of them Matt, that will give me 20 of them in total.
I'm just trying to corner the world Laminova market
Regards Andrew.

Is this doubting Darren another convert?

Matt

 

[Cañonero]

An intercooler will lower your EGT's if you don't change the fuel settings. The increase in density will more than make up for the pressure loss. Unless you're only running single figures of boost, in which case an intercooler isn't needed.

I think Tapage's heating issue is a reminder that the original cooling system was designed around the original power levels. If you want 50% more power then you'll be generating at least 50% more heat as well.

But if you run with the original power level, an intercooler will help the engine stay cool.

Ok, so what I can do is tweak the turbo and pump to increase the power to a medium level. The stock power is about 170 BHP, some friends with the safari air to air intercooler have tweaked the engine to more than 200 BHP without problems, so, if I stay under 200 BHP, I'll be fine. Even better if I get an EGT gauge to keep it low.

But the important question now is: with a huge intercooler like this, will I have the chance of doing this or, with the big increase in density in the air, will I have to compensate with lots of fuel, taking the levels of heat and power to a risky level?

 

[Tapage]

I think Tapage's heating issue is a reminder that the original cooling system was designed around the original power levels. If you want 50% more power then you'll be generating at least 50% more heat as well.

Good shot Dougal .. that's the main issue in Tencha ..

But the important question now is: with a huge intercooler like this, will I have the chance of doing this or, with the big increase in density in the air, will I have to compensate with lots of fuel, taking the levels of heat and power to a risky level?

They can go risky if you don't pay atention .. sure they can. The issue it's a process .. you have more fuel, watch your EGT test ride and go again. You will reach a point with lot's of more fuel, your cruiser making nice powa ( that make you smile when you are drivin it ) but pointing your atention all the time to the EGT and water temp ..

At this point you can go back in the fuel setings or go forward with more cooling capabilities = still in the powa track !

 

[Dougal]

Ok, so what I can do is tweak the turbo and pump to increase the power to a medium level. The stock power is about 170 BHP, some friends with the safari air to air intercooler have tweaked the engine to more than 200 BHP without problems, so, if I stay under 200 BHP, I'll be fine. Even better if I get an EGT gauge to keep it low.

But the important question now is: with a huge intercooler like this, will I have the chance of doing this or, with the big increase in density in the air, will I have to compensate with lots of fuel, taking the levels of heat and power to a risky level?

Turbos are driven by exhaust heat and pressure. So with the right turbo you can't end up with more air than you need.
A bigger intercooler will have more volume, but it'll also have less pressure drop.
More fuel is always optional, never is it necessary.

 

[awill4x4]

Is this doubting Darren another convert?
Matt

No, Darren thinks that if I have 20, then that's 19 too many.
Regards Andrew.

 

[Cañonero]

So I can run the big intercooler without reliability problems, can't I?, and then is up to me to give more fuel or more turbo pressure.

Or, in other words, if you weren't looking for race performance, only some improvement, but you could get an intercooler much bigger than needed for a very good price (that's my situation), would you go for it or would you spend more money and get the needed size?

 

[matt.mcinnes]

So I can run the big intercooler without reliability problems, can't I?, and then is up to me to give more fuel or more turbo pressure.

Or, in other words, if you weren't looking for race performance, only some improvement, but you could get an intercooler much bigger than needed for a very good price (that's my situation), would you go for it or would you spend more money and get the needed size?

I would go for it. You will get a little more lag but if you are not looking for outright performance then I can't see a problem.

 

[Dougal]

So I can run the big intercooler without reliability problems, can't I?, and then is up to me to give more fuel or more turbo pressure.

Or, in other words, if you weren't looking for race performance, only some improvement, but you could get an intercooler much bigger than needed for a very good price (that's my situation), would you go for it or would you spend more money and get the needed size?

I would go for the big one too.
But remember, you have to plumb it in.

I've lost count of the number of poser cars and vans around with a big shiney front mount intercooler that's connected to nothing.

 

[sandcruiser]

Andrew:

on this setup:

is the intercooler top-mounted with a hood scoop and also a front-mount radiator for air/water?
Seems like a pretty good way to get the most of out the intercooler.... both higher speed and lower speed cooling. (and it looks cool)

 

[sandcruiser]

edit: I'm assuming that the "nubs" on the front are water hoses, but looking more closely, it is difficult to tell what they are.

 

[Dougal]

edit: I'm assuming that the "nubs" on the front are water hoses, but looking more closely, it is difficult to tell what they are.

They're mounting bosses.