Water pump belt continues to become loose. (1 Viewer)

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Here are some pics :

pic 1 - All the various belt tension gauges I’ve got. The OTC-Burroughs type is what I try first but will use the others when it proves difficult to use the OTC-Burroughs do to tight clearances.

pic 2 - Three different fsm’s with the tension specs.

pic 3 - Tension spec in the 2F owners manual.

pic 4 - Tension spec in the maintainence procedures manual.

pic 5 - Tension spec in the AC manual. Note the FJ60 belted accessory setup doesnt appear to be drawn as it is in my truck.

Pic 1

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Pic 2
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Pic 3

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Pic 4

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Pic 5

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The belts should have their own tension range printed on them. If you have the correct belts it’s the same as the FSM. It doesn’t matter what kind of gauge you’re using as long as you’re measuring the same tension. The Burroughs gauge is probably very accurate and quick but it’s not absolutely necessary. I don’t mean to be rude but I think you’re obsessing about that too much. The FSM gives a range of +- 20 pounds. That’s a pretty broad range and as long as you’re not running it at, say, 200ft pounds or 50ft pounds you should be okay. Actually I don’t recall if it’s ft pounds or another unit, but that’s relative.
 
The belts should have their own tension range printed on them. If you have the correct belts it’s the same as the FSM. It doesn’t matter what kind of gauge you’re using as long as you’re measuring the same tension. The Burroughs gauge is probably very accurate and quick but it’s not absolutely necessary. I don’t mean to be rude but I think you’re obsessing about that too much. The FSM gives a range of +- 20 pounds. That’s a pretty broad range and as long as you’re not running it at, say, 200ft pounds or 50ft pounds you should be okay. Actually I don’t recall if it’s ft pounds or another unit, but that’s relative.

I am not concerned with the tension, I was just showing all the parameters of the problem (ie I have the spec and tool(s)) to hopefully elimnate some possibilities.

And I should warn you the spec IS different based on the tool and method. They ultimately point to the same tension but are expressed in different ways that are NOT linearly equivalent.

Ie the deflectionn-defined spec is given in terms of deflection for a given force applied in the middle of the longest span of belt. In particular, each gauge has its own pre-defined amount of force it will apply and so the amount of deflection expected for a properly tensioned belt will vary. The one fsm has the deflection for 22 lbs, I have a 10 lbs application gauge. I would have to backsolve a Newtonian force diagram problem given 22 lbs applied produces whatever deflection to get the parameter to solve for a 10 lbs application.

In short, the specs are given for a certain tool and it’s not as simple as a unit conversion to go from one to the other.
 
The belts should have their own tension range printed on them. If you have the correct belts it’s the same as the FSM. It doesn’t matter what kind of gauge you’re using as long as you’re measuring the same tension. The Burroughs gauge is probably very accurate and quick but it’s not absolutely necessary. I don’t mean to be rude but I think you’re obsessing about that too much. The FSM gives a range of +- 20 pounds. That’s a pretty broad range and as long as you’re not running it at, say, 200ft pounds or 50ft pounds you should be okay. Actually I don’t recall if it’s ft pounds or another unit, but that’s relative.

I am not concerned with the tension, I was just showing all the parameters of the problem (ie I have the spec and tool(s)) to hopefully elimnate some possibilities.

And I should warn you the spec IS different based on the tool and method. They ultimately point to the same tension but are expressed in different ways that are NOT linearly equivalent.

Ie the deflectionn-defined spec is given in terms of deflection for a given force applied in the middle of the longest span of belt. In particular, each gauge has its own pre-defined amount of force it will apply and so the amount of deflection expected for a properly tensioned belt will vary. The one fsm has the deflection for 22 lbs, I have a 10 lbs application gauge. I would have to backsolve a Newtonian force diagram problem given 22 lbs applied produces whatever deflection to get the parameter to solve for a 10 lbs application.

In short, the specs are given for a certain tool and it’s not as simple as a unit conversion to go from one to the other.
 
Ok I put a video on youtube showing the air pump and ps pulleys first for about 10 secs and then I move to the water pump.

Could you guys take a look and let me know if you can see anything egregiously wrong or if you need a better angle ? Thanks.


 
I am not concerned with the tension, I was just showing all the parameters of the problem (ie I have the spec and tool(s)) to hopefully elimnate some possibilities.

And I should warn you the spec IS different based on the tool and method. They ultimately point to the same tension but are expressed in different ways that are NOT linearly equivalent.

Ie the deflectionn-defined spec is given in terms of deflection for a given force applied in the middle of the longest span of belt. In particular, each gauge has its own pre-defined amount of force it will apply and so the amount of deflection expected for a properly tensioned belt will vary. The one fsm has the deflection for 22 lbs, I have a 10 lbs application gauge. I would have to backsolve a Newtonian force diagram problem given 22 lbs applied produces whatever deflection to get the parameter to solve for a 10 lbs application.

In short, the specs are given for a certain tool and it’s not as simple as a unit conversion to go from one to the other.
Interesting! Thanks for the clarification. I will pay attention to that more closely from now on.
 
From what I see in your video things look like they’re running pretty smooth for a 30 year old vehicle. It is noisy, but that’s tough to determine from a phone video. When the engine is off, is there any lateral play in the pulleys? Can you push and pull them in and out or side to side? They should be nice and solid. I guess you need to remove the belts to accurately assess them. The tension could be holding things tight for the time being. Once the belts naturally relax it could allow a pulley with play to start jumping around. This might explain why it’s happening after a thousand miles or so.
 
Looking at your previously posted pictures, it seems that you have a power steering leak. Possibly in multiple places. That stuff is very corrosive and is known for destroying smog pumps. It would certainly destroy belts too. Just a thought.

Edit: thinking further. Fix your power steering leaks. Either way it needs to be fixed. It’s damaging your vehicle. I’m 99% certain this is your problem. Your belt is being soaked in PS fluid. Flinging it all over your engine bay, corroding things, and then the belt fails and slips off. That’s why that nub fell off of the belt. That’s why it’s slipping. It’s wet.
 
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Looking at your previously posted pictures, it seems that you have a power steering leak. Possibly in multiple places. That stuff is very corrosive and is known for destroying smog pumps. It would certainly destroy belts too. Just a thought.

Ugh yeah I noticed that, down one of the ps hoses, right ?

I should address that first and foremost. Those “rebuilt” air pumps arent completely rebuilt - (no carbon) vanes or bearings available. This is probably a disaster in the making.
Looking at your previously posted pictures, it seems that you have a power steering leak. Possibly in multiple places. That stuff is very corrosive and is known for destroying smog pumps. It would certainly destroy belts too. Just a thought.

Edit: thinking further. Fix your power steering leaks. Either way it needs to be fixed. It’s damaging your vehicle. I’m 99% certain this is your problem. Your belt is being soaked in PS fluid. Flinging it all over your engine bay, corroding things, and then the belt fails and slips off. That’s why that nub fell off of the belt. That’s why it’s slipping. It’s wet.
Looking at your previously posted pictures, it seems that you have a power steering leak. Possibly in multiple places. That stuff is very corrosive and is known for destroying smog pumps. It would certainly destroy belts too. Just a thought.

Edit: thinking further. Fix your power steering leaks. Either way it needs to be fixed. It’s damaging your vehicle. I’m 99% certain this is your problem. Your belt is being soaked in PS fluid. Flinging it all over your engine bay, corroding things, and then the belt fails and slips off. That’s why that nub fell off of the belt. That’s why it’s slipping. It’s wet.

Ok that sounds reasonable. Most seem to convert to a “saginaw pump” but I want to stay Toyota OEM. ive never troubleshot PS problems before. Can it possibly be the hoses are shot and the pump is ok ?
 
The PS issue seems like a good explanation, since the belt that continually loosens and is directly under the ps pump. I’ll fix/replace then see if the belt lkngevity improves.
 
City racer sells a Toyota PS pump for $210 I think. It’s a remanufactured pump if I’m not mistaken and I don’t know anything about the reliability or quality, But it’s an option. I’m considering it myself just because I don’t feel like pulling bolts off the head of my engine to convert the mount. I had leaky ps lines that I’ve replaced a few years ago. I wipe the pump down every week or so and make sure its not leaking anything significantly. It’s possible that it’s just the rubber lines or the lines going into and out of the steering gear box, but the pump could also be leaking. Either way, get after it or it’ll get after you.
 
I got a new OEM pump from Camelback about a year ago. Worked great. A little higher priced than the City Racer one but brand new OEM not rebuilt I believe. Also replaced the high pressure hose, return hose, pulley, woodruff key, and pulley nut when I did this. High pressure hose I got through NAPA. Parts here for a 1984. Here to pick your year. Just another option. Remember 60 series PS system uses ATF Dextron as fluid not PS fluid. HTH.
 
Well if I have to get a new pump I’ll probably go OEM for $306 :
Power Steering Pump - Toyota (44320-60071) | Toyota Parts

I want to perform the tests outlined in the FSM that utilize a pressure gauge to isolate the source of the leak. While the tests and how to come up with them are pretty straightforward, does anyone know what type of pressure gauge tool would allow for the types of test shown in the fsm ?
 
Does anyone know of a Looooong 12mm box end ? By long I mean 2’ to 3’, not 10” lile most “long” 12mm box ends are.

The reason I ask is because the rear 12mm on the air pump is a beast to get to on my truck (assume I am not missing something because I am not and also assume my physical dimensions are not the same as yours if you think it is easy for you to dl the same thing) and the thing that would make it a much easier exercise is something like the “mythical” 36” 12mm box - end.

Does this mythical tool exists ?
 
I can’t visualize where your headed as I’m all desmogged but can’t you reach from underneath?
 
I can’t visualize where your headed as I’m all desmogged but can’t you reach from underneath?
Yes that is ultimately how I get to it when I am working alone. Due being short (5’8”) and overweight I have to jack the front end up so I can maneuver better under the axle.

With two people, one person can go near the drivers side part of the engine bay by the windshield and there is a “clear hole” through the smog crap to the nut, but it requires either LONG arms. I have a 36” socket extension which I attach a 12mm socket on a wobble end which can be maneuvered throught the “hole” to the nut. It is easier because I dont have to jack the truck up, but I need two people (one person holding the 36” socket setup, the other loosening the front air pump nut).

A super long 12mm spanner would allow me to do it myself without jacking the truck up.
 
I’ve heard that if you reinstall the smog pump pulley backwards, pulleys wont line up and you’ll quickly ruin the belt. Not that I would ever do something that dumb.
 

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