Water pump belt continues to become loose. (1 Viewer)

[cps432]

Are you talking about the pivot point or the locking bolt? The pivot bolt should be snug but allow the pump to move. The tensioner should adjust the travel and then the locking bolt should lock the pump to the travel bracket. I’ve never messed with the pivot bolt other than to replace the pump.

 

[cps432]

And I just used an open ended box wrench on the locking bolt. It’s a little tedious and time consuming compared to the others but easy enough.

 

[fjgdk]

Are you talking about the pivot point or the locking bolt? The pivot bolt should be snug but allow the pump to move. The tensioner should adjust the travel and then the locking bolt should lock the pump to the travel bracket. I’ve never messed with the pivot bolt other than to replace the pump.

I’m talking about the pivot bolt on the bottom of the pump.

 

[cps432]

I’m talking about the pivot bolt on the bottom of the pump.

There should be friction on that point but it should move enough for the tensioner to travel. Other than that there no reason to mess with it once it’s set up. Tighten the locking bolt down good and tight and that should be enough to keep it from moving on you.

 

[fjgdk]

There should be friction on that point but it should move enough for the tensioner to travel. Other than that there no reason to mess with it once it’s set up. Tighten the locking bolt down good and tight and that should be enough to keep it from moving on you.

Ok well maybe that was my issue - I was tightening down 17314A (the bolt we are talking about) in addition to the locking bolt (in the box w/power steering 90919-08038) and tensioning bolt (90119-08264).

 

[fjgdk]

Rather, maybe the belts were being affected by the fact the bottom bolt was not allowing for some very slight movement.

 

[RodrigzCrzr]

Maybe, you need to loosen that bottom one slightly so it has movement. Then tighten the top one. Once you have the correct tension tighten the top ones then the one below and you should be good to go.

 

[fjgdk]

Maybe, you need to loosen that bottom one slightly so it has movement. Then tighten the top one. Once you have the correct tension tighten the top ones then the one below and you should be good to go.

I’m confused - are you now saying to tighten the bottom bolt after setting the correct tension ? That is what I had been doing.

I am not having a problem in setting the tension. I know how to do that.

I thought you were saying I should try leaving the bottom bolt untightened during normal driving operation.

Here is what I do to adjust the tension:

1) Loosen bottom pivot bolt (with difficult to access nut)

2) Loosen top lock nut.

3) Turn adjusting bolt until desired belt tension is achieved.

4) Re tighten top locking nut.

5) Re tighten difficult to access bottom pivot bolt.


What exactly are you saying I should do differently ?

 

[RodrigzCrzr]

Yes
That is what you should do!
Other wise the bottom pivot bolt is going to back out and then you will loose that spacer again.

 

[fjgdk]

Yes
That is what you should do!
Other wise the bottom pivot bolt is going to back out and then you will loose that spacer again.

Can you please clarify what you are saying yes to ? Tighten the bottom picot bolt when done or leave it loose ? I cant follow your comments.

I have been doing steps 1-5 every time I adjust any belt. That isnt anything new.

 

[Gretsch]

I had a thing on mine where when I would snug down the mounting bolts, it would sort of 'walk' back towards the engine as I tightened them down lessening the tension on the belt. I replaced my smog pump with a JimC smog delete pulley which uses some of the smog pump mounting gear, so at the time I chalked it up to that being the reason. Not exactly the same a smog pump setup but similar. Maybe something to check.

I did not use a tension gauge on mine and used the FSM deflection rule instead. Since that last snug up mine has stayed put and the belts tight. Having a chunk taken out of your belt definitely points to something more than just tension though. Like others have said seems like something more with the pulleys themselves.

 

[fjgdk]

I had a thing on mine where when I would snug down the mounting bolts, it would sort of 'walk' back towards the engine as I tightened them down lessening the tension on the belt. I replaced my smog pump with a JimC smog delete pulley which uses some of the smog pump mounting gear, so at the time I chalked it up to that being the reason. Not exactly the same a smog pump setup but similar. Maybe something to check.

I did not use a tension gauge on mine and used the FSM deflection rule instead. Since that last snug up mine has stayed put and the belts tight. Having a chunk taken out of your belt definitely points to something more than just tension though. Like others have said seems like something more with the pulleys themselves.

Yes I agree - I dont believe it is an issue regarding incorrect tension. I think it is something else.

If a pulley is wobbling, is it actually the pulky or thr bearings of the accessory to which the pulley is attached?

 

[RodrigzCrzr]

@fjgdk
Yes once you find the correct belt deflection. Tighten everything down. The top adjusting bolts and the bottom pivot one.
But as @Robert Franzke also mentioned there must be something wrong with your pulleys for a chunk of belt to rip off like that. Go through your system again. Make sure there is no obstruction either on the pulleys or in line with the belts.
See if you can wiggle your fan clutch while the “Engine is off”. Check all your pulleys. Check and recheck. You will find it. Just take your time.

 

[FJACS]

3 pages on how to tension the belt? I think you should probably take this to a trained professional.

 

[Gretsch]

Also, with the “engine off”
If you can try to move the air pump back and forth or side to side see if it moves.
That it is on there solid.

I do not see where this was ever done. Was this checked?

Also on there is a photo on the first page showing the crank pulley. Looks to have a ton of rust and scale where the belts ride on the crank pulley, but the photo is hard to see. Have you tried cleaning that up some?

@fjgdk you may want to check all your pulleys!
Your WP,air pump, and your crank pully. Check it while it is running also. See if it balanced . Check the crank pully nut!
Eliminate anything and everything.

I don't see where this had been done.

Has the crank pulley ever been off the truck to your knowledge? Can you see any of the pulleys look like they are wobbling with the engine idling? Those crank pulleys have a woodruff key on the crankshaft to set them and sometimes they can go 'missing'. I think you can crank the nut down to hold them in place for the most part but if its missing it could cause the pulley to move around free on the shaft from what the crank is doing. I have never seen that myself so someone else can chime in on what that would do. Seems like over time it could wear the crankshaft down enough to cause it to wobble. I would think you could visibly see that as the engine is idling (or revved) if the crank pulley were moving around. so again I would check all the pulleys to see if they move straight. You can look at the crank nut to see if the crank itself is wobbling, and then look out a bit from that to the center of the crank pulley itself to see if its moving. Have you checked that the crank nut is tight? The fact that the only belt causing an issue however is the WP belt tells me to look at either the WP pulley setup or the WP itself. Perhaps the WP is seizing up periodically causing your high temp and tearing up the belt. You again should be able to see if the fan, fan pulley, or fan clutch is moving around as the engine is idling. Do you see any evidence that the fan is moving into the fan shroud as it spins (knicks in the fan or shroud)?

I think incorrect belt tension can tear up belts pretty good and of course accessory bearings. Possibly do what you are seeing. I know you are in the 'use the tension gauge' camp but have you considered just eye-balling the tension for now and see what you get? I would follow @OSS's or @Willard's advice with regards to tensioning the belts on here, and skip the gauge for these trucks. I did and its worked perfectly. They know of what they speak with 60 series. HTH.

 

[fjgdk]

3 pages on how to tension the belt? I think you should probably take this to a trained professional.

I wasnt sure what Rodrigzcrzr was saying which is why we had the back and forth. I wrote out what I do to tension any belt on my FJ60 for clarification .

 

[fjgdk]

3 pages on how to tension the belt? I think you should probably take this to a trained professional.

No its 3 paged in why my water pump belt has come loose for the second time in 4000 miles. The first time I had a mechanic at a Toyota dealership put on all three belts. This was when I first got the truck. After 3000 miles the water pump belt came completely loose and had a chunk taken out of it.

I installed a new belt and tensioned all belts with the OTC tension gauge. 1000 miles into it the new belt is loose again.

 

[fjgdk]

I do not see where this was ever done. Was this checked?

Also on there is a photo on the first page showing the crank pulley. Looks to have a ton of rust and scale where the belts ride on the crank pulley, but the photo is hard to see. Have you tried cleaning that up some?



I don't see where this had been done.

Has the crank pulley ever been off the truck to your knowledge? Can you see any of the pulleys look like they are wobbling with the engine idling? Those crank pulleys have a woodruff key on the crankshaft to set them and sometimes they can go 'missing'. I think you can crank the nut down to hold them in place for the most part but if its missing it could cause the pulley to move around free on the shaft from what the crank is doing. I have never seen that myself so someone else can chime in on what that would do. Seems like over time it could wear the crankshaft down enough to cause it to wobble. I would think you could visibly see that as the engine is idling (or revved) if the crank pulley were moving around. so again I would check all the pulleys to see if they move straight. You can look at the crank nut to see if the crank itself is wobbling, and then look out a bit from that to the center of the crank pulley itself to see if its moving. Have you checked that the crank nut is tight? The fact that the only belt causing an issue however is the WP belt tells me to look at either the WP pulley setup or the WP itself. Perhaps the WP is seizing up periodically causing your high temp and tearing up the belt. You again should be able to see if the fan, fan pulley, or fan clutch is moving around as the engine is idling. Do you see any evidence that the fan is moving into the fan shroud as it spins (knicks in the fan or shroud)?

I think incorrect belt tension can tear up belts pretty good and of course accessory bearings. Possibly do what you are seeing. I know you are in the 'use the tension gauge' camp but have you considered just eye-balling the tension for now and see what you get? I would follow @OSS's or @Willard's advice with regards to tensioning the belts on here, and skip the gauge for these trucks. I did and its worked perfectly. They know of what they speak with 60 series. HTH.

How exactly do you determine if anpulley is properly balanced other than by visual inspection and seeing the “feel” of turning the pulley when mounted to the accessory ?

As far as I could see and feel both the wp and air pump turned smoothly with the belt off. The drive pulley looks to be running smoothly. I am just noting looks only on the drive pulley.

When I look at the front of the engine from the passenget side, to me it seems as though the alternator is tilted somewhat. It is very subtle and may just be my eyes, but it is something I want to look into more on this.

 

[cps432]

This is the tensioning gauge I have been using. I have no problems with it as long as you use it properly. I can tension the belts from below with no issues. I take three measurements and average it out to ensure I’m in the FSM suggested tension range. I think you’re having another issue here. Seems like you’ve got the tensioning down.

Shoot a video of everything while it’s running. Give us a good 20 seconds or so on each pulley and we should be able to see if there is any wobbling going on. My crank pulley was wobbling but not enough to throw belts. I changed it because of a “while you’re in there” situation. I also changed the WP and fan clutch “while I was in there”.

 

[fjgdk]

This is the tensioning gauge I have been using. I have no problems with it as long as you use it properly. I can tension the belts from below with no issues. I take three measurements and average it out to ensure I’m in the FSM suggested tension range. I think you’re having another issue here. Seems like you’ve got the tensioning down.View attachment 1881910

Shoot a video of everything while it’s running. Give us a good 20 seconds or so on each pulley and we should be able to see if there is any wobbling going on. My crank pulley was wobbling but not enough to throw belts. I changed it because of a “while you’re in there” situation. I also changed the WP and fan clutch “while I was in there”.

Ah the “crickit” gauge, I have two - one for v-belts and one for serpentine. There is no tensioning spec for that type of gauge given in the FSM. There is only a spec for the Burroughs type gauge given. There is a spec given (for Australian versions of our truck) for another type of gauge where you apply 22 ft-lbs and the spec is given in terms of deflected distance. I have that type of gauge also, only it is set up to provide 10 ft-lbs only.

That Burroughs type gauge is the best imhonto get fsm spec.


I did take a 1 minute video but the site wont let me post it. Do I have to put it on Youtube and provide a link ?