Wanting to do the torsion bar lift? But thinking you need help?

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Thinking it's beyond your (solo) limit of mechanical ability? Wishing you had one of the guys on the board here close by to lend a hand? Stop sweatin it and just do it.

Look, I'm not one of those guys who says "Screw spending $1,200 on a bumper, buy a welder and make one..." I know my limits. This torsion bar thing is comically simple. Really. If I had to rank it, I'd put it between installing new floor mats and changing the oil.

When I set out to do this today, I didn't know were the torsion bars were or what to look for. I read Gunny's post on torsion bars, walked out to the 100, lied down under it, looked up and laughed. There was that big old 30mm bolt head. A trip to Sears and $8.79 later, I had the requisite socket.

I decided to use the jack the 100 came with - figured it would be good to know where it is, how all the pieces work together... not going to have my floor jack if I ever flat on the road.

Including the time it took to find the jack, assemble the crank/handle AND lift the 100 - both sides - it took 12 minutes. I lowered the truck, drove it around the block, parked it, looked at it, decided I wanted another turn in each bolt... 7 minutes later I was driving it out of the garage again.

Once the truck was on the jack, the time spent on the torsion bar bolt was... 90 seconds. No exaggeration. Okay, I had marked (with a Sharpie) already so add 8 seconds per side.

I'm glad I've only had the 100 for 2 months - I'd be kicking myself if I'd put this off more than the that long - thinking I needed help ;)
 
Awesome!

I'll be fire marshall bill and point out that one should NEVER underestimate the ability of the truck to roll off the jack - wheel chocks and jack stands are a must if you're getting under the truck. I know it might seem like overkill but better than the bodily harm or physical/financial damage should the car roll back and down the driveway or into the garage etc... you laugh but it's happened. Our trucks are big and heavy, our working surfaces are rarely as level as we might think, etc.

Kudos on lowering your truck!
 
Awesome!

I'll be fire marshall bill and point out that one should NEVER underestimate the ability of the truck to roll off the jack - wheel chocks and jack stands are a must if you're getting under the truck. I know it might seem like overkill but better than the bodily harm or physical/financial damage should the car roll back and down the driveway or into the garage etc... you laugh but it's happened. Our trucks are big and heavy, our working surfaces are rarely as level as we might think, etc.

Kudos on lowering your truck!

I reread my post... by "lowered the truck off" I meant via the jack. I lifted the truck of course. And then edited my post ;)

NOTE: I did not remove the wheels. I raised one tire off the ground an inch. The truck was in Park, on a flat surface with the brake set. Given that, I don't think jack stands are needed for this job. The truck could only "fall" onto the four tires - three of which are already on the ground.
 
Manhattan said:
I reread my post... by "lowered the truck off" I meant via the jack. I lifted the truck of course. And then edited my post ;)

NOTE: I did not remove the wheels. I raised one tire off the ground an inch. The truck was in Park, on a flat surface with the brake set. Given that, I don't think jack stands are needed for this job. The truck could only "fall" onto the four tires - three of which are already on the ground.

wheel chocks are probably still a good idea to keep car steadier on the jack.
 
why do you need a jack at all for adjusting the tbars? crank, drive, measure, crank, drive, measure. you're not going to damage anything by cranking with weight on it. have you seen some of the pictures with the tires buried in the well? that's a lot more force than what you're applying.
 
OregonLC said:
why do you need a jack at all for adjusting the tbars? crank, drive, measure, crank, drive, measure. you're not going to damage anything by cranking with weight on it. have you seen some of the pictures with the tires buried in the well? that's a lot more force than what you're applying.

for lowering (backing off) i agree. fr cranking though, aside from making it easier, i think i've seen posts of people heard of people busting their tb bolts. ill have to dig that up.
 
for lowering (backing off) i agree. fr cranking though, aside from making it easier, i think i've seen posts of people heard of people busting their tb bolts. ill have to dig that up.

there's something else going on if they're breaking those bolts. they turn very easy for me, up and down. perhaps there was corrosion on the rumored broken bolts that aggravated that situation. if you can put enough effort to break a 30mm bolt without a huge cheater than my hat's off to you! and they're preloaded so even it the air there's a good deal of torque on them. not noticeably easier in the air IMO.
 
I imagine you're right about some other problem if it's difficult to turn the bolts.

Nevertheless, numerous reports of hard to turn without unloading the front end: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/251845-t-bars-hard-turn.html

As far as broken bolts - I couldn't find any LC/LXs with broken bolts, but found plenty of reports of other trucks and even other toyota trucks with people that managed to break torsion bar bolts... (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/4runner/25101-torsion-bar-bolt-broken/ and https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota-truck-tech/180881-how-remount-torsion-bar.html for example).

That raises the safety concern - while loaded there's a lot of tension and were they to break it could be dangerous. For interest's sake I didn't see the FSM instructions on adjusting tbs say to lift the vehicle.

Personally, though, with a decent floor jack at the front/center jack point, lifting the front is a breeze. When I recently adjusted my TBs, the driver's side was way harder to adjust while loaded (yes I pb blasted), but passenger side was easy to crank/back off even while loaded (I tried to for curiousity).
 
Thinking it's beyond your (solo) limit of mechanical ability? Wishing you had one of the guys on the board here close by to lend a hand? Stop sweatin it and just do it.

Not sure if this is a completely new thread, and apologies, I don't mean to hijack, just curious about this:

I'm also assuming your 100 doesn't have AHC correct? What if it does, is the procedure different? Won't the AHC try to correct that height increase? Perhaps pressures would drop in the system is all I can think of...

Have any of those with AHC tried to do the sensor lift, and followed up with cranking TB bars up, if so, does this actually relieve pressure in the spheres? My understanding is that there are only 2 (in the rear) in the AHC equipped 100's correct? If the AHC front/rear system are separate, would you effectively be lowering pressures in just one end of the truck as opposed to another?

I'm assuming you don't have AHC in your truck, however for those that do, any comments? Yes, feel free to tell me to stick it, and move this to another thread :D
 
arbetrader - As you assumed, my 100 does not have the AHC

To againsin's point, rolling a jack under there takes seconds. Given how smooth the TB bolts are in my 100, I don't want to f' that up pushing my luck by cranking them loaded. It's down to a 5 minute job as is... don't want to get greedy and break/strip something.

The TB adjustment is so simple/fast, it's too bad an alignment is part of the equation... I could see dialing the TB down for road trips (about to put 1,300 highway miles on the 100) for that added mpg... and back up when I return. Quick - someone come up with a 5 minute alignment ;)
 
My 100 fell off the bottle jack while changing the tire last week. I wasn't entirely surprised, so I was watching out for it. It took a bit of macgyvering to get it back on the jack so I could replace the wheel, but it all worked out. It would have been less dramatic if I would have sucked it up and bought an x-jack already.
 
I'm also assuming your 100 doesn't have AHC correct? What if it does, is the procedure different? Won't the AHC try to correct that height increase? Perhaps pressures would drop in the system is all I can think of...

Have any of those with AHC tried to do the sensor lift, and followed up with cranking TB bars up, if so, does this actually relieve pressure in the spheres? My understanding is that there are only 2 (in the rear) in the AHC equipped 100's correct? If the AHC front/rear system are separate, would you effectively be lowering pressures in just one end of the truck as opposed to another?

There are other threads that cover the AHC adjustment topic.
A few overarching comments though:
- with AHC you only use TB adjustments for 2 reasons. 1) to level front left to front right, 2) to adjust neutral pressure.
- raising height front or rear will RAISE neutral pressure, lowering height lowers neutral pressure.
- cranking (i.e. clockwise) TBars in the front will decrease neutral pressure in front, backing off Tbars in front will raise neutral pressure in front.
- from my experience, there is a slight correlation b/w front and rear neutral pressures based on stance but the front and rear neutral pressures are completely separate systems on our LX470s (in the LX570s I think they link the corners). The relationship I've seen is that if your rear is way high that puts slightly more weight on the front and causes neutral pressure to go up. Vice versa as well. That's based on what I've seen from using techstream to observe changes in neutral pressure.

So - back to your specific questions:
- the procedure for AHC adjustment is different. TBs would not be used to raise/lower the front (assuming you are level front left to front right). You would theoretically use height sensors to adjust (2 in front 1 in rear) and then ideally you would adjust neutral pressure in the front to compensate - if you raised the front you'd need to crank the tbars to bring down neutral pressure; if you lowered the front you'd need to back off the tbars to raise the neutral pressure. In the rear, if you raised the sensors you'd probably want to use stiffer springs...
- Again, raising height will raise neutral pressure (true for front or rear).
- I have adjusted my vehicle height (not for the purpose of lifting etc) but I have confirmed (and it's in FSM) that cranking TBars lowers neutral pressure.
- 2 height sensors in the front, 1 height sensor in the rear
- the front system is separate from the rear. as I mentioned above in general observations, since they're not connected adjustments in the front are separate from those in the rear, with the qualification that I have observed slight impact of rear stance on front and vice versa when the difference in front/rear stance is large.

Hope that clears up some of your questions.
 
...The TB adjustment is so simple/fast, it's too bad an alignment is part of the equation... I could see dialing the TB down for road trips (about to put 1,300 highway miles on the 100) for that added mpg... and back up when I return. Quick - someone come up with a 5 minute alignment ;)

Why is an alignment part of this procedure? You are changing spring preload.
 
Front end geometry changes - raising or lowering the front would at least effect camber, right?

Correct. You are affecting preload of the spring, yes, but by raising the front of the vehicle you are also affecting camber (and possibly caster too?). If you want to see an exaggerated example, slowly raise the front of the truck until the tires are just about to come off of the ground. Keep lifting and watch what happens - you can see the camber changing as the vehicle gets higher and the suspension unloads. This is just the nature of the way IFS works. As the tires/suspension move down in relation to the rest of the vehicle, negative camber increases. By adjusting the torsion bars to increase spring load, you are "setting" the vehicle in that raised position with more negative camber, and it needs to be compensated for if you want optimal tire wear and handling. Obviously using a jack to raise the front end makes it look worse than it is...the effect is significantly lessened with weight on the suspension. Nevertheless, any time you adjust the front height of the vehicle you need an alignment.
 
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Front end geometry changes - raising or lowering the front would at least effect camber, right?

Sure... The geometry of the suspension is designed to work through a range - you are simply changing the starting point within that range. You could go totally too far, then yes an alignment would be needed.

Of course changing the ride height via the switch in an LX or AHC equipped LC would require the same alignment considerations.
 
Of course changing the ride height via the switch in an LX or AHC equipped LC would require the same alignment considerations.

If you're talking about temporarily going to H or L with AHC, the AHC system automatically goes back to N when speed exceeds ~19mph - so alignment isn't an issue in L or H unless you have the manual override, in which case Slee's instructions tell you to get the alignment done at H if you plan to leave it at H all the time etc...

If one is adjusting height sensors permanently higher or lower than normal, then yes you'd have the same alignment considerations.
 
Let me be clear - I'm NOT saying dont get an alignment. I'm saying a modest adjustment wouldn't REQUIRE an alignment.

[edit] Maybe you guys are raising these things more than I think?[/]

Thanks for the info - I dont have AHC on my LC, I was unaware that Toyota put a nanny on it.
 
Let me be clear - I'm NOT saying dont get an alignment. I'm saying a modest adjustment wouldn't REQUIRE an alignment.

[edit] Maybe you guys are raising these things more than I think?[/]

Thanks for the info - I dont have AHC on my LC, I was unaware that Toyota put a nanny on it.

Alignments are done to fractions of a degree so even a minor adjustment should have an alignment. But in general, I agree that nothing catastrophic would happen save perhaps a few (thousand? hundred?) less miles out of your tires.
 

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