VR 10 vs. M8000 on an FJ80 (1 Viewer)

[OREGON85]

I'm getting ready to put a winch on my 80. The budget calls for a the VR 10 or M8000 -- both around $600. I'm more confident in the quality of the classic M8000, but the capacity of the VR 10 is probably a better match. Any perspectives I should consider? Thanks!

 

[SmokingRocks]

10k is a minimum rating which I would feel comfortable with on a loaded mired 80.

Buy quality, if you can’t afford that now then save more until you can. I’ve seen cheap winch’s let their smoke out on many occasions. Yet there is a internet cult that defends cheap winches with a passion.

Ask yourself if you want to gamble on budget recovery gear when you are stuck on a mountain in BFE with no cell service. Will it do the job? 80 maybe 90% of the time sure...

What about the 10-20%? In my experience cheap recovery gear let’s you down when you need it the most.

Flame on

 

[tplane2]

8000 and a snatch block. Just do it.

 

[hoser]

^^^x2

or better yet, try and score a used Warn 9.5xp or 9.5cti

 

[NateMob]

^^^x2

or better yet, try and score a used Warn 9.5xp or 9.5cti

TIs and CTIs pop up a good bit, but I've NEVER seen an XP go up for sale used. After having owned one on my last build I will admit to believing in the ridiculous price tag and will probably purchase another.

 

[SmokingRocks]

general rule of thumb is that the winch capacity should be around 1.5x the vehicle weight.

An empty mostly stock LC 80 is around 5500lbs x1.5 = 8,250 8k winch will be fine for this application

my rig weighs about 7000 loaded. 7,000 lbs x 1.5 = 10,500 10k winch will work

I prefer and am an avid proponent of oversizing gear that can save life's so I went with a warn zeon 12k. Again people will say go with the cheaper, lower rated winches and rely on snatch blocks and bubba ropes. And if you are not planning on wheeling challenging trails often thats probably fine. But if you like to push your rig, do snow wheeling or plan on building up your rig get a 10-12k warn, Smitty built, super winch or other reputable name winch.

Again people will flame me but from my search and rescue & recovery experience I stand by my statements.

 

[dcguillory]

smittybuilt is reputable?

 

[SmokingRocks]

I use to question them until our team had to use a 10k smitty on a receiver mounted bucket to haul an XJ 400 yards up a mountain in the snow above tree line. That winch did great, so credit where credit is due.

I'll also note that I have seen failures on expensive winches too. On the same rescue mission I referenced above we had a warn zeon 12k Platinum fail when the synthetic line bound up and crushed the drum. The smitty ran from 11am to 9:30pm. Biggest take away is to know how to use your gear.

 

[cbpeck]

I was just looking at winches. Superwinch is clearancing out their Talon lineup for fantastic prices on their website. Go there first. I think a 13.5k was $650, so about half off.
8k is bare minimum. Many say 12k is the sweetspot. I ended up getting a screaming deal on a 16.5, but that's a whole different story.

 

[danthman114]

I have a vr10k. never used it yet...

 

[chap79]

I was just looking at winches. Superwinch is clearancing out their Talon lineup for fantastic prices on their website. Go there first. I think a 13.5k was $650, so about half off.
8k is bare minimum. Many say 12k is the sweetspot. I ended up getting a screaming deal on a 16.5, but that's a whole different story.

Superwinch Talon Series

 

[OREGON85]

Just to be clear, the VR 10 is a Warn winch. I wouldn't consider it 'cheap', but it is much cheaper than their premium winches.

An M10000 would be perfect in my mind, but they don't make it -- just M8000, then it jumps to M12000.

I've been watching craigslist for a 9.5cti or 9.5xp. One of those would be perfect, but I haven't found anything on craigslist.

 

[OREGON85]

Ohhh! I just found an XD9000i on eBay. Maybe that is the route...

 

[NateMob]

Ohhh! I just found an XD9000i on eBay. Maybe that is the route...

Depending on the bumper you are planning to mount in, a lot of the "integrated" winch models wont work because of their height.

 

[mgoblue]

You may see some good deals next week (black Friday/cyber Monday)

 

[hoser]

@OREGON85 Warn did manufacture an M10000 years ago.... but they are all pretty old. The M12000 can be found plentiful used. They spec out quite heavy with the 3/8" 125 foot cable. But you can knock off probably 30+ lbs if switching to synthetic winch line when funds allow.

@NateMob Quick search located a couple 9.5XP's.....

*** Warn 9.5 XP Winch ***
Warn 9.5xp

 

[OREGON85]

Depending on the bumper you are planning to mount in, a lot of the "integrated" winch models wont work because of their height.

Could this be resolved if you were willing to trim the valance/grill as need to fit the winch?

 

[NateMob]

@OREGON85 Warn did manufacture an M10000 years ago.... but they are all pretty old. The M12000 can be found plentiful used. They spec out quite heavy with the 3/8" 125 foot cable. But you can knock off probably 30+ lbs if switching to synthetic winch line when funds allow.

@NateMob Quick search located a couple 9.5XP's.....

*** Warn 9.5 XP Winch ***
Warn 9.5xp

Could this be resolved if you were willing to trim the valance/grill as need to fit the winch?

@hoser how'd you find those without searching all the different craigslist cities?! Thank you.

@OREGON85 Yeah, totally dependent on the bumper setup but usually the grille could be trimmed out of the way.

 

[hoser]

@NateMob Google "Warn 9.5xp site:craigslist.org"

 

[SmokingRocks]

Just to be clear, the VR 10 is a Warn winch. I wouldn't consider it 'cheap', but it is much cheaper than their premium winches.

Yes the VR is badged Warn. VR series internal drive gear and componentry are made in China then assembled in the USA. Don't get me wrong it's not a terrible winch, just know it's limitations when comparing it to its brothers: inferior duty cycle (more down time to lessen the risk of overheating), components made out of Chinesium, water intrusion / corrosion of the solenoid controls (there are some good write ups by others detailing ways to lessen the risk of this failure point). Many run this winch and like them, like I said much of it comes down to how much you expect to use it.

You also need to keep in mind that an 8k winch is only rated to pull 8k lbs of force on the first wrap of the drum. On your second wrap the winch's max force drops to around 6,700 lbs, then 5,700 lbs of force on your 3rd wrap... 4,960 lbs of force on your 4th wrap. Essentially you loose about 15% of of your winches rated pulling force for each wrap on the drum.

Read up or better yet take a class on how to calculate line load for recoveries, it will save you money by not needing to replace gear in the long run.

Lets just say your rig weighs 6,000 lbs and you get stuck in mud up to your axles going down a 15° hill.

You would NEED to snatch this with an 8k winch which means you would need close to 14,000 lbs of force. If you are on your second wrap you are maxing out the winch and in danger of stalling the drum. Stalling a winch is commonly when people see smoke and sparks from the solenoid, at that point you might as well undo all your rigging and wrap your cable up on your bull bar because that winch won't be worth much.

Hear me out, I'm not trying to sandbag you, I'm just giving you all the information so you can buy equipment that suits your needs now and as you build up your rig. Our rigs are HEAVY and only get heavier, understanding that resistance factors can drastically increase pull force required can help you choose the right winch so you don't get stuck out in BFE by yourself. I'll let this go back to the OP topic now, if you want to talk more about this or want info on reputable recovery instructors drop me a PM.

Research, Buy, Build, Bash, Repeat