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voltage question -- it can cause damage, right?

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by erics_bruisers, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. erics_bruisers

    erics_bruisers

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    I am looking at this statement --

    "THESE ELECTRIC BREAK STICKS HAVE 100,000 VOLTS RUNNING THROUGH THEM. VOLTS WILL NOT KILL ANYTHING. AMPS IS WHAT KILLS. THESE ONLY HAVE VOLTS. THESE HAVE ENOUGH STOPPING POWER TO TAKE A GROWN MAN TO HIS KNEES IN 5 SECONDS!!"


    here -

    http://www.thebullyhouse.net/pages/11/index.htm

    Something is awry here -- from high school, voltage was made up of amperage and resistance -- :(

    e
     
  2. Gumby

    Gumby Supamod Staff Member s-Moderator

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    I'm sure an EE will cringe at this simplistic definition, but volts is electrical pressure.

    Your ignition wires have 100,000 volts and will probably not kill you. Your lawn mower runs around 30,000 volts and will definately not kill you.

    Your 220V electrical box in your house will fry your ass.
     
  3. wob

    wob

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    That break stick needs to be longer than that. You are still getting too close to fighting dogs, IMO.
     
  4. erics_bruisers

    erics_bruisers

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    Okay, so I agree that it doesn't kill you, but then how does it have an effect on the dogs?

    This is similar to a Tazer, that I remember reading somewhere messed some victims up pretty badly --

    e
     
  5. Doc

    Doc

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    I'm sure there is always going to be some risk of the "1%" side effects, you know those 1% of the population that dies from taking asprin... same thing here. You can't predict with 100% certainty how everyone will react. you can make generalized predictions based on past data, but nothing is 100%.

    I'm sure this works in a similar manar as the tazer... electricity overloads the neurons and causes momentary paralysis. Or something to that effect.
     
  6. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Moderator

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    We had one of those static electricity generators in high school (Van de Graf device?). Anyway, it's the thing that if you put your hands on, your hair stands on end. If it was on and you brought your hands near it, you'd get a zap. According to the teacher, for every inch of arc it was approx. 10,000 volts of charge. We could get a few that were 7 or 8 inches, so supposedly 70-80,000 volts. Stung like a mother. I'd think it'd just to the same to dogs?
     
  7. IDave

    IDave

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    I agree with Wob: that forces you to get too close to the canines. My Beretta side-by-side, however....
     
  8. e rock

    e rock

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    I think the most simplistic (and more or less accurate) analogy I've ever heard used is that of water pressure. Volts = pressure, Amps/current = rate of flow, amp-hours = volume, etc.

    At higher pressure (voltage), you can run a higher flow rate (amps), with the same size pipe (wire)...

    It's stretching a bit far for this example, but the application would be a very high pressure, very low volume mister. Sure, the water's coming out at a very high velocity, but it's so little actual flow that you aren't getting very wet at all.





    Either way, if there's a discharge, there is some amperage to it.
    It doesn't really work that way. In this case, it just isn't enough current to do much harm. And the contact points are relatively close together so the effect is localized. There's a reason AED contacts have to be placed at certain points on a patient's chest/side - you want the current to pass through the heart muscles. The stick is relatively safe because if the resistance through the body is too great (like getting both front paws on the electrodes - which would put the heart in the path), it will just arc across the middle like in the demonstration video. Until it finds a path of less resistance (saline-drenched skin), it arcs harmlessly through the air.




    Personally, I'd be leery of anything that takes 5 seconds to bring down a grown man. 5 seconds is a long time, and I've seen dogs with a LOT more determination and drive than ANY grown man. Talk to a cop and I'm sure you'll hear stories about tazers failing to subdue.
     
  9. Jman

    Jman

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    The way those work is that they cause the nerves controlling the muscles to fire a bunch of times until there are no more "signal" chemicals left. The muscles can't operate for a while.

    They will not cause the massive internal injuries that large amp devices would cause. Of course, any voltage across the heart is a no-no.
     
  10. Doc

    Doc

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    But what about voltage across the 'boys'?
     
  11. mabrodis

    mabrodis

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    Damnit Doc, did you mouth off to the cops and get tazered in the nads again?!

    :D
     
  12. wob

    wob

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    So, Eric, the angle you are taking is not whether or not they are effective at stopping a fighting pit, but whether they are safe for the dog or not? :confused:
     
  13. rusty_tlc

    rusty_tlc Dain Bramaged Member

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    Since the aim of most of these devices is to disrupt the central nervous system to the point that the subject is unable to move "The boys" would probably be less desirable than the neck.

    Animal (human) nervous systems use current in the micro amp range to transmit signals. A high Voltage low amperage discharge causes the nerves to fire. As has been mentioned once the chemical that produces the charge (volts+amps) is exhausted the victim is unable to move. Since the neck connects the source of the signals (brain) to the muscles it would seem to be the best location.

    Or I could be full of it.
    :D
     
  14. Red Herring

    Red Herring

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    Volts tickle, current kills. Some electric shocking toys have 100,000 volts. Volts are nothing without current. Think of it like a bb gun vs a canon. Both projectiles might fly at say 500 feet/sec, but the canon ball (high amps) has way more potential behind it.
     
  15. Jman

    Jman

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    Eric, are you looking to get into electrical play? :confused: If so, there are a lot better Web sites out there than the back yard breeder ones. :flipoff2:
     
  16. Doc

    Doc

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    It makes me feel all tingle-y inside.....
     
  17. Gumby

    Gumby Supamod Staff Member s-Moderator

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    Don't they zap bulls in the nads to harvest semen?


    Sounds better than Junk's old job of animal masturbater.
     
  18. NorCalDoug

    NorCalDoug problems solved daily...

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    I heard Junk got fired for drinking on that job...not quite sure what it was, but he did mention something about protein shakes :confused:


    :flipoff2:




    Eric -- here's a good general rule of thumb...don't buy anything from a web site with fonts that are too big and text that hasn't been run through a spell checker. It's a rule I like to go by...

    That gizmo looks like a large stun gun. If a stun gun is what you want, let me know, I can hook you up...need some pepper spray -- I can do that too.
     
  19. Rice

    Rice

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    Van de Graaff generators supply between 200,000 and 500,000 volts (mine is a little souped up :D ) .... the number of electrons coming off the dome for any given spark is generally small so no harm done.

    Gumby is right --- you can think of voltage as being pressure behind the electrons. Skin is actually a fairly good insulator (most folks don't think in those terms) ... depending on thickness it takes about 30-40 volts to penetrate the skin (remember touching your tongue to a 9-V battery ... thin skin with nerves on the surface). Grabbing a 12 V car battery does nothing ... a 120 light socket gives a good jolt.

    The issue is simple .... ONCE the voltage is high enough to penetrate the skin is the supply of available electrons enough to cause harm?

    Van De Graaff ... no
    Light socket ... yes
    Stun Gun/Tazar ... yes, but only because is uses capacitors to store the electrons you're about to recieve.

    Rice