Viable Alternatives to FJ-80

[WildHare]

Dear Folks,

I am graduating soon, have a job ready for me, and am near to fulfilling a decade old dream: buying an FJ-80, and tricking it out for offroad use.

However, gasoline prices may scare me off. I'd like an offroad vehicle with front and rear doors. Rugged, reliable, freeway capable, and more comfortable than my current ride. I'm thinking $10k-15k for the vehicle + $5k in mods.

Are there any viable alternatives to an FJ80?

For context, my current rig is this little puppy:




1987 4Runner body and drivetrain on '85 Frame. Upgraded brake system: '87 rear axle (bigger drum brakes), new '82 FJ40 vented disks, rebuilt '92 IFS calipers, V6 master cylinder and brake booster. Chevy rear springs, Allpro 3" front springs, Bilstien 5150 shocks in front (12" travel) and rear (14" travel). Taco e-locker in the rear, high pinion FJ80 e-locker in front. Drivelines both have Toy CV joints, done by Jesse at High Angle Driveline. Marlin crawler crossover steering system using super beefy frame gussets. Rebuilt front and rear axles. New oem oil pump and cam from www.engnbldr.com

I will be putting on the Marlin Crawler rock sliders I have in the garage, and welding together a swing out tire carrier bumper. Then it's going to be sold. Having only two doors, and a (relatively) harsh rides are becoming turn-offs as I age.

Right now the vehicle gets me 19mpg on the freeway (70-75 mph). Not too bad considering what it can do.

Any alternative vehicle suggestions?

Thanks for the help!

-Dan

 

[pulse98]

What is your budget for the vehicle alone?

The FJ Cruiser is a nice new vehicle with a very capable engine and gets about 19 mpg hwy according to the guys at fjcruiserforums.com. I wanted a FJ Cruiser ($29k) but could not justify getting it since a nice FZJ80 goes for less than half the price (about $13k).

 

[WildHare]

I'm budgeting $10-15k for the vehicle alone, mods getting about $5k.

 

[Romer]

If your worried about gas mileage, I would go with a 99-01 4runner Limited. If you want a more capable vehicle over MPG, go with the 80.

I have two 80's and two 4 runners. All are real capable off road.

 

[Rusty Phillips]

you could get a FZJ 80 to play with on the weekends
and then buy a VW Jetta tubo diesel to drive every day


but maybe the best thing to do is enjoy your current ride and wait until things get better (price of gas comes down or you have more $$)

 

[cartercd]

Congrats on graduating.

If you are looking for something with 4 doors, rugged, reliable, and the ability to turn into a worthy off-roader - you are likely going to end up with a mid to full size SUV that is not going to be able to pass up a gas station.

You need to evaluate the total cost of ownership of your choice rather than just gas costs:

- initial cost of truck
- insurance
- registration
- how expensive is it to modify (i.e solid axle much cheaper to lift than IFS)
- routine maintenance costs
- gas costs (largely dictated by how many miles you drive per year)

Once you evaluate all of these things you might find that an 80 series is cheaper than some other trucks you might be considering. Given that the 80 series has been a dream of yours for a decade and your obvious knowledge of Toyotas, you are going to have a hard time living with anything else.

 

[MDarius]

If you buy an $8000 fzj 80, put on your mods, you are left with $7000 to play with. At $3 a gallon, that equates to 2,333 gallons of gas. At 13 mpg (don't argue with me on this! We'll average it, k?), that's over 30,000 miles. Unless this is your daily driver, that should be good for a long time. Not paying cash? Just finance your fuel consumption and the $7k to your loan! OR, use the $7k for an econmy car.

Honestly, if you do the REAL math, a few mpg x your actual miles driven can help you make a good decision.

Given:
12k miles per year
$3 a gallon
13mpg vs. 19 mpg = 6 mpg difference

12000/19*3=1894.74
12000/13*3=2769.23
Difference=874.49 / 12 months = 72.88 per month

Bump the mileage up to 27mpg, amortize that and you could justify a second economy car for daily driving and keep the cruiser for just the weekends...or talk yourself out of it altogether and end up with a '92 corolla in the driveway and a built cruiser in your dreams.

fun=$$$. I just accept it.

 

[tarbe]

Gas seems really expensive to you now, but in a few years, when you are making the big bucks, it will seem cheap(er).

5 years from now, a clean stock 80 with fewer than 150,000 miles will be almost impossible to find. Think about that...

Oh, and there are no good substitues for an 80

 

[Spydaz]

Gas seems really expensive to you now, but in a few years, when you are making the big bucks, it will seem cheap(er).

5 years from now, a clean stock 80 with fewer than 150,000 miles will be almost impossible to find. Think about that...

Oh, and there are no good substitues for an 80

Took the words out of my mouth! Just by the 80 and suck it up!!

You will however NEVER REGRET IT!!!

Subsitutes for an 80--- like we say here in NY: Fageddaboudit!

 

[fuelgeddes]

I dont get it , you say " am near to fulfilling a decade old dream: buying an FJ-80, and tricking it out for offroad use. "

What are you waiting for ? It is never going to make any real since , nor $$$. Everyone else will wonder why your so into your truck and you will even start to think why am I on MUD so much, but you will always come back for the ideas and the wow factor not just the LC ! Life doesnt get any easier , wait until you have to explain things like that to a wife of all things. !

good luck and may it be a Land Cruiser.

 

[tltaylor22]

Bump the mileage up to 27mpg, amortize that and you could justify a second economy car for daily driving and keep the cruiser for just the weekends...or talk yourself out of it altogether and end up with a '92 corolla in the driveway and a built cruiser in your dreams.

fun=$$$. I just accept it.[/QUOTE]



I have a 93(even though it is dying of old age) and a 2000 Jetta TDI. It's worked out well for me. The lowest milage I have gotten with the TDI was 41mpg. I mainly see 44-46 depending on the tank. If I total the milage per year from the cruiser and the TDI, I still end up above 35mpg. With oil prices ready to jump another 8% because of BP shutting down thier pipeline in Alaska, the saving will become more evident. Get an 80 and a commuter and be happy in both aspects.

 

[94landcruiser]

Gas seems really expensive to you now, but in a few years, when you are making the big bucks, it will seem cheap(er).

5 years from now, a clean stock 80 with fewer than 150,000 miles will be almost impossible to find. Think about that...

Oh, and there are no good substitues for an 80

X 2

 

[Grench]

Run the numbers, then buy an 80 anyway.

Efficiency depends on perspective.

Energy is required for the creation of a vehicle and can be amortized over it's lifespan. I was unable to find a citation for this, but lets work from a base of 25%. I.e. 25% of a vehicle's purchase price is based on the energy required to melt the ore, pour the steel, turn the lights on, grow the food that the workers eat, transport the parts made all over the world to one place for assembly, etc... If anyone has a real number, throw it out.

Anyway, working from the above assumption...
A '96 Land Cruiser sold new for an MSRP of ~ $48,000. So, the energy costs were about $12,000. (love using aproximate multiples in examples).

If you purchase a '96 Land Cruiser for $12,000 you are assuming the $3,000 in remaining energy cost/value. If you drive it 10,000 miles per year for 10 years at $3 gas and 12 mpg, then your energy costs for the life of the truck are $3,000 + $25,000 = $28,000 for the 10 year 'life'. Net 10 year cost = $37,000.

If you purchase a new Lexus RX 400h hybrid SUV at $46,060 and get 33mpg city/28mpg highway then it works out to $11,500 in base energy costs. If you drive it 10,000 miles per year for 10 years you will likely to have worn out the electric motor and the batteries. No credit back for estimated value at the end of 10 years because I don't think it will have one. $3 gas, 30mpg, 10,000/yr, 10yrs = $10,000 fuel. $10,000 fuel + $11,500 energy component = $21,500 for the 10 year 'life'. Net 10 year cost = $56,000.

So, if you're going to drive 10,000+ miles per year, get yourself a 2nd car and put 2500 miles a year on your 80. Make the 2nd car a 2001 or 2002 Z28. 30mpg at 80mph with the AC on in a car that can do 0-60 in 5.2 and max out around 160mph if you so desire.

If you drive less than 4,000 miles per year, your energy footprint is actually less with the 80 than it would be to buy a new hybrid.
'96 80 = $3,000 base + $10,000 = $13,000
Hybrid = $11,500 base + $4,000 = $15,500

If you get an 80 and do 10,000 miles per year, then your carbon footprint is only 30% higher than it would be with a new hybrid. If any granolas give you grief for buying/driving a big inefficient sport ute, tell them you're reusing which is way more efficient than recycling. They'll get that.

 

[Nay]

For context, my current rig is this little puppy:

1987 4Runner body and drivetrain on '85 Frame. Upgraded brake system: '87 rear axle (bigger drum brakes), new '82 FJ40 vented disks, rebuilt '92 IFS calipers, V6 master cylinder and brake booster. Chevy rear springs, Allpro 3" front springs, Bilstien 5150 shocks in front (12" travel) and rear (14" travel). Taco e-locker in the rear, high pinion FJ80 e-locker in front. Drivelines both have Toy CV joints, done by Jesse at High Angle Driveline. Marlin crawler crossover steering system using super beefy frame gussets. Rebuilt front and rear axles. New oem oil pump and cam from www.engnbldr.com

The rig you have is a much better base for a tricked out offroad rig than an 80, and I can't imagine you are getting great gas mileage, so what's the problem?

The only reason I can hear for doing an 80 is you love them, so what possibly can be a viable alternative? I can list you a bunch of rigs that are a better base than an 80 for a major project, but what does that matter since you already own one of them?

 

[Sackman]

plain and simple:

NO

 

[MDarius]

The only reason I can hear for doing an 80 is you love them, so what possibly can be a viable alternative? I can list you a bunch of rigs that are a better base than an 80 for a major project, but what does that matter since you already own one of them?

At the risk of hijacking this thread, can you list them and why? I'm also looking for the right 2nd Land Cruiser because I love the way my STOCK cruiser wheels (= wheels great stock, it must wheel better built up), I love the reliability I get from a Toyota, and I love that my family of 6 people can fit in it. I only work 2 miles from home, so MPG isn't an issue. Give me a list of vehicles that meet that criteria and I'll start shopping for them tomorrow.

I'll start:
-Jeep doesn't give the reliability. I imagine with a DANA 44 and the right set up a Jeep could be more capable. My Old Cherokee wasn't as capable stock, I rebuilt the front end twice in 4 years, and my built CJ wasn't as reliable. Somebody with a different experience chime in here.
-I have owned Chevy and Ford products. While not the trucks, they have certainly cost me more in maintenance year over year than I expect my Cruiser to cost me. How many times can your AC, heater, electric locks and windows, fuel pump, power steering pump, tie rods etc. go out and your drums and rotors have to be replaced every two years in vehicles less than 6 years old before you switch to a Toyota?
-Land Rover - let's not get this crowd started.
-Nissan?
-What else?
-I am sure a Pinzgauer 6X6 would be more capable off road, but I aint driving that for 5 hours to Moab with my family inside!
-An FJ60/62? Are they better bang for the buck?

I know he is looking for a major project, and has some different things in mind than I do, but for a daily driver + trail rig, what specifically is out there? Why is the 4Runner better? I have been looking at them and for a similar year, they sure aren't as comfortable to drive. I might give a little comfort for capability though.

 

[fzj80kidpen]

Lance has a 4runner FS at IronPig.
Ideal for a solid axle swap if you are looking for a project.
Personally, I far prefer my 80

 

[WildHare]

Efficiency depends on perspective.

.....

If you drive less than 4,000 miles per year, your energy footprint is actually less with the 80 than it would be to buy a new hybrid.
'96 80 = $3,000 base + $10,000 = $13,000
Hybrid = $11,500 base + $4,000 = $15,500

...

If any granolas give you grief for buying/driving a big inefficient sport ute, tell them you're reusing which is way more efficient than recycling. They'll get that.

If greenies/hippies ever give me grief about my old "inefficient" cars, I point out that I've amortized the environental use/damage from originally building my vehicles over their 20 year life. The waste making their new Subaru/VW (why do the hippies I meet always drive $30k/2-4 year old cars?) was dumped in the river much more recently; "last week" on a geologic clock. I'm actually kinder to the environment using old stuff.

I love your observation, reusing is more efficient than recycling. Take that hippie! Go home and eat your granola!

 

[WildHare]

The rig you have is a much better base for a tricked out offroad rig than an 80, and I can't imagine you are getting great gas mileage, so what's the problem?

The only reason I can hear for doing an 80 is you love them, so what possibly can be a viable alternative? I can list you a bunch of rigs that are a better base than an 80 for a major project, but what does that matter since you already own one of them?

My reasons for wanting a different vehicle are multi-faceted, changing slowly with time.

It used to be that I wanted a vehicle that could do interesting offroading. These trails would require 33-35" tires, lockers, flexy suspension, upgraded steering, and rock protection all around.

Now, it's more about spending time with people at a particular destination. This destination can be a pretty viewpoint, or a camping spot. With the forest service's tendency to ban campfires outside of approved camping spots, that means standard roadside camping. Ie: no 4x4 needed.

Also, the rate of trail closures is putting a serious damper on my offroading opportunities. I've seen my nearby offroading opportunities go down by 50% in the past 3 years. Those remaining are forest service land, which is closed off for about half the year. Spending $$ and MAJOR TIME on a vehicle to go to a dwindling number of places alone isn't very attractive.

So, my need for a rig with modded suspension is going down. And my desires for passenger/cargo room, and comfort are increasing.

To sum up: I want a moderately capable trail rig with 4 doors, good comfort, and the ability to get a little crazy when offroading. The mods I plan are mostly armor, for good tow points, and to protect sheetmetal: front and rear bumpers, sliders + aux gas tank. I'd also like to run 315's. With the large tires, and extra weight, I'll need a slight lift (about 2" methinks) with accompanying bits to even out the steering and arms.

I've owned a number of Toyota 4x4's with IFS, and I can say that the lack of articulation and relative delicacy of IFS alignment after offroad use is unattractive. I'd rather stay with solid axle. However, I will consider a Nissan XTerra or the like.

So, room, comfort, and solid axle. That leads me to Dodge full size pickups, early Ford Explorers, Land Cruisers, Jeeps.

I've had enough experience with Fords to know that early Explorers are not a good reliability option.

Dodge full size pickups:
+ Roomy
+ good turning radius
+ coil sprung suspension (comfy/easy to mod)
+ good power
+/- large vehicle
- reliability concerns
- fuel economy

Jeep Wrangler
+ Excellent offroadability
+ coil sprung (wouldn't consider the leaf sprung)
- very little room for anything. Unacceptable

Jeep Cherokee
+ 4 doors
+ solid axle
+ coil sprung
- unibody construction - totally unsuitable for heavy addons or suspension work (in my opinion)
- reliability concerns

Jeep Grand Cherokee
+ 4 doors
+ solid axle
+ coil sprung
+ good aftermarket
+ powerful
- fuel economy
- serious reliaibility concerns

Land Cruiser FJ80
+ 4 doors
+ solid axle
+ coil sprung
+ very solid reliability rating (from here and elsewhere)
+ much improved aftermarket
+ stock e-lockers (available)
+ good stock offroading ability
+ already familiar with Toyota mechanicals (years of reading about/working on vehicles)
- middling power
- fuel economy
- a little cramped (for my 6' 1" 300lb body)

Nissan XTerra
+ 4 doors
- small aftermarket
- underpowered
- IFS

A decent example of any of these vehicles will run me about $10k, so initial purchase price is equal. After considering the options, it seems the LC is the best idea, much because I'm already familiar with the mechanicals, and have read often about common mods.

For my Daily Driver, I'll get a Toyota Corolla sedan. I do love Japanese cars!

What do you guys think?

-Dan

 

[KliersLC]

I think you'll have plenty of room if you fit in the 4R