V8 stalling diagnosis? (1 Viewer)

[FJ60]

after driving my FJ40 to work for a few days (man it was running great) I hopped out and left it running when I went in to get my son from daycare. When I came out it had stalled, NO BIGGIE fired her back up and drove home. When I got home it would not idle, it kept loading up like it was dumping too much fuel and on restarts I got some black smoke. It smooths out at higher RPM's but something is wrong.

I replaced the fuel filter and plugs, filled her up with Chevron 93 hoping I had some bad gas. After all this I bailed and took her to a local shop hoping they would have a quick fix. The mechanic has called me 3 times asking questions and this guy's shop has been around longer than I have been alive ???

he says that it is not a fuel or fuel delivery problem and that he only had spark on 3 plug wires. He asked why the engine did not have a harmonic balancer (it's a punched out 283 from the mid sixties) he said he advanced the timing and it got better but still dies and he wasn't sure what to do.

I suggested replacing the plug wires and checking the HEI distrubitor (Accel) and he said he hadn't checked it but would, I also asked if it could be a intake leak........I sent it to a MECHANIC because I had done all I could do and wanted PROFESSIONAL HELP but it doesn't seem like I'm getting it can any body help me GUESS what is wrong????

SPECS:
1964 283 bored .40 over
10:1 flat top pistons
Ultradyne RV cam
Edelbrock 650 Carb (6 months old)

this engine was built by the previous owner and has less than 25k miles, it has run fantastic until last week.

questions, answers, and smart ass comments accepted

 

[IDave]

Easy. Replace the mechanic.

Spark at 3 but not all wires suggests the dizzy cap or the wires themselves to me. What else could do that? Seems damn straightforward.

 

[dinkleberry]

I wouldn't replace the mechanic so fast. It's hard to look at someone elses non-stock engine conversion a know exactly whats wrong.

Where you away from the truck a long time? Did it get alittle too hot? Something happened while you were inside. I would check the dist. or rotor. Unless the plug wires burned on the manifold it wouldn't be them.

 

[IDave]

Swapping wires is easy. If the problem (no spark) moves with the wire, then it's the wire. If it stays, then the problem is upstream. That's pretty basic.

 

[dinkleberry]

True, and you could always use new wires.

I know you said the dist. was Accel but were the wires? I had a bitch of a time with Accel wires not goin all the way on the plug.

 

[FJ60]

No overheating since I've owned this truck and I was inside less that 3 minutes

the wires and Dist were both Accel and have been on the engine since the build. I don't mind answering questions or discussing stuff with him, he's a good guy and a neighbor of mine but I expected he'de be better at diagnosing the problem. Hell I don't know much but I knew to check the wires and Distributor before giving up

this guy does Fleet service for the company I work for too. I would never take Toyota to him but this is a good ole Amercan V8, I figured it would be easy. He also told me that the wrong plugs were installed (previously installed by a Toyota ASE mechanic) as usual I must have a RARE and UNUSUAL problem that no one else on earth has encountered.

As I continue to lose faith in the ability of people who turn wrenches for a living (in my area) I WILL keep buying tools and gaining knowledge so I don't have to rely on these people to fix my junk

 

[toddslater]

My 02. on it is since all was right with the world until it died after a 3 min pause in the action, and it fired back up with gobs of black smoke (ie. fuel being dumped into the intake), and it clears itself somewhat at higher revs, and then won't idle and die out...and you can repeat the above as necessary....is you sucked a bit of crude into the float needle/seat assembly which is not allowing it to close, which then allows way too much fuel to fill the carb...overflowing down into the intake creating a non idling and great puffs of black smoke as it tries to clear itself. I am assuming it'll either be a two/four barrel holley or similar unit. Pull the top off, take the floats off, remove the needle and seat and clean it out good with some gumout, put it back together and see if it doesn't return to it's old self.

BTW I have never been able to get a V8 to run on just 3. 7 yes ...6 barely....

 

[FJ60]

Todd that's what I told him when I dropped it off, "it acts like the choke is stuck" I had already checked the linkage on the manual choke before I gave up thinking maybe it was binding.

I do drive the piss out of it and was afraid I might have damaged the bottom end somehow but temp, oil pressure....everything seemed fine except the lack power and no idle. He's already passed by the carb and said it was fine (which I believed because it was nearly new).

Edelbrock 600cfm 4bbl

 

[Rice]

I have to agree with Todd. Carb may have been fine before but it sounds very much like a bowl float or needle valve is stuck open (perhaps trash in the needle) and is pouring it in.

 

[nspctr1]

I agree with todd also, I had a edelbrock 600 that sucked. It was very tempermental about getting a little debris in the float/ needle area. Also, If you were wheelin' and depending on the air cleaner your running it could of come loose enough to allow a little dust/ debris inside and it finally came loose?

 

[FJ60]

But if it REALLY is the carb...waddup with the spark on only 3 wires? I laughed out loud when he told me this and said "3 out of 8 huh"?

I'll give him till Friday and then I'll cut my losses and update the wires and Distributor myself. Then I'll get somebody I trust to install a offroad kit in the carb. and check the float and see what happens.

The count on reliable shops in my area is now at FLAT FREAKIN ZERO

 

[FJ60]

SHOULDA BOUGHT A QUADRA-JET

 

[Rice]

Pouring fuel into the cylinders is likely fouling plugs (and after the carb thing is fixed will need replacing ... cleaning the plug won't do it) and in fact could even overload and kill the wires, but lets be honest, what are the chances you were inside for 3 minutes and burned out 5 wires? The only other thing that might cause what you're describing is moisture in the dist. cap or if it cracked ... but you said at higher rpm's it would clean up and with water in the cap that wouldn't happen.

As you foul more plugs the problem will get worse.

PS note ... it was common for builders of 283 engines of old to leave off the dampner but todays engine builders consider it bad science. Even though the pulses of each cylinder from a 283 are smaller than say a 350, they still send harmonics to the valve train in addition to adding torsional stress to the crank. I would consider putting one on.

 

[IDave]

Rice, if it is more likely that its a carb problem than an electrical problem, how is it that there is no spark from 5 of 8 wires? Are you saying there's BOTH an electrical and a carb problem that developed in the 3 minutes he was gone? At the same time? Or are you suggesting that the mechanic is wrong and the spark is actually there. Just trying to follow you here. ???

 

[toddslater]

Or are you suggesting that the mechanic is wrong and the spark is actually there.

While not meaning to sound too critical...but the mechanic is either a complete idiot or just needs some extra cash to pay for them xmas bills and decided to see if he could bend Deep South over and provide the "service" w/o the lube.

But seriously, 3 out of 8 going at the same time ...thats like being a little bit pregnant and it won't run on 3 out of 8. I agree with Rice...you could conceivable foul them one by one but ....I don't see it either.

PS Pardon the jump in on the answer Rice and Dave.

 

[Poser]

[quote author=Deep South Cruisers link=board=1;threadid=9796;start=msg86289#msg86289 date=1073508107]
As I continue to lose faith in the ability of people who turn wrenches for a living (in my area) I WILL keep buying tools and gaining knowledge so I don't have to rely on these people to fix my junk
[/quote]


Best thing that you could do for yourself, and the mechanics in your area...


Good luck!

-Steve

 

[hammerhead]

[quote author=Deep South Cruisers link=board=1;threadid=9796;start=msg86352#msg86352 date=1073514290]
SHOULDA BOUGHT A QUADRA-JET
[/quote]
I agree 8)

 

[hammerhead]

We had a similar problem on a rig here and it turned out to be the distributor. Not only does it need spark on all 8 but it needs to be advancing properly. I've even seen a thrashed distributor shaft bushing give an intermittent spark and it was completely untimable. Go back to the basics and verify proper ignition function first. Then if you're sure the problem is the carb put a Q-jet on it and sell that stupid AFB crap to a street rodder that never hits bumps and never runs in the rain.

8)

 

[Rice]

No Dave, I'm saying the opposite. That getting trash in the needle valve in 3 minutes is likely but that killing wires is not. Remember, he said that after getting up in the RPM's initially it would clean itself out. That lead me away from believing it was (is) an ignition problem. I was saying that pouring all that fuel (black smoke) into the cylinders could be killing the plugs and could, in fact, overload and kill the wires as well. So now his mechanic is telling him there's an ignition problem.

 

[FJ60]

a few things I am sure of...

1. I filled up the tank that afternoon (could have stirred debris in the tank)
2. It ran great until I left work (like a bat out of hell)
3. Its gutless on the bottom end and smooths out at higher RPM's
4. Cold starts yield black smoke and mashing the skinny pedal she bogs, chugs, belches a puff of black smoke and then clears at higher RPM's
5. SHOULDA BOUGHT A QUDRA-JET



I appreciate all the input, he hasn't called back but I expect it's because he parked my 40 outside and said fawk it