upgrading the brakesystem (1 Viewer)

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Joined
May 25, 2005
Threads
4
Messages
115
Location
Germany
Hello Cruiserheads out there,

i am a little bit confused - there are so many brake upgrades on mud.

Car:
1989 BJ70LVMRW EUDM 24V

The problem:
My brakes are crap (again) and i am tired of replacing single parts to fix the problem and in a couple of months there is another problem.

My idea:
Fix everything by replacing the discs, calipers, brake m/c and old rubber lines.
But when i rip the whole system apart, why not upgrade the brakes.

My question:
What other parts will fit?
Of course the Minitruck/Hilux/4Runner V6 caliper, right?
Will the VZN/FZJ/KZJ brake master cylinder fit on the BJ70 booster or is the original (but new) m/c just fine?
Do i have to replace the booster as well?

Is there any other advise you can give me to improve the brakes?


I'm looking forward to your advise :)

greetings from germany :beer:
 
Good luck. Most BJ70 owners have complained about the brakes.

I'm no different. I've gone through many pains in the last 6 months. I replaced the pads, shoes, calipers, a couple of solid lines, and all flex lines with stainless steel ones.

It turns out that my brake booster was bad. A replacement from Toyota is closing in on $1000. Used ones will not last long or already be bad.

I used a brake booster from a 1999 Toyota Tacoma. In order to make it work you'll need to flip it upside down and weld on ~1 inch (25.4 mm for German's :) ) extension to the actuator (the part that comes thru the firewall and connects the the brake pedal. The Tacoma unit is too short and the pedal will not rest at the correct level, but easy to source and cheap.

After that the braking was substantially better but still underwhelming.
 
Now i have one problem ... Toyota never sold the Tacoma over here :-/

BUT - i found this: FJ62 brake booster
Maybe the HDJ80 (which is more common here) brake booster will fit and do the job.
Unfortunately a new 80 series brake booster is also expensive.
All i'v read now on mud leads me to one conclusion: upgrade the brake booster, the other parts of the brake system are pretty much okay. Is that right?

On the other hand i ask myself: will the complete HDJ80 non-abs front brake system fit plug and play (larger diameter and thicker discs, bigger calipers, brake master cylinder and brake booster)?
 
there's lots of different things you can do to improve your brakes but it probably depends what part of the world your in and what parts are available. The stock brakes on my fj75 were outright scary all I did was swap the rear drums over to disc using front vented rotors and 54mm single pot callipers off a mid 1980's Subaru leone and I put an Australian PBR VH40 remote 9" booster onto the front brake circuit (as well as the standard booster on the master cylinder) and my truck now pulls up on a dime like a late model car with no effort on the brake pedal :hillbilly:

rear disc 1.jpg


booster.jpg
 
Wow interesting engine bay! :)

I live in germany and despite the bad availability of the parts you and other cruiserheads use to improve the brakes, i have to deal with the infamous TÜV (strict technical check every two years and on every mod).
Now i try to keep the upgrade more or less invisible to the TÜV-inspector. Luckily the BJ70 is rare on our side of the globe and he will not notice ... the used HDJ80 brake booster is just ordered from the Netherlands (if it fits), for example :D

Back to your system:
Your front setup is still the standard discs and calipers, except the separate PBR brake booster for the front circuit?
 
Back to your system:
Your front setup is still the standard discs and calipers, except the separate PBR brake booster for the front circuit?

yep still standard cruiser brakes on the front other than the extra booster, I did upgrade to the later callipers with the 4 large pistons instead of the 2 small and 2 large pistons but I cant say I noticed any difference between them it still pulls up hard and fast.
 
It is quite simple to perform a very effective brake upgrade that looks totally standard with all OEM parts. This is what I have done to my BJ74, on tar I can lock up all four wheels with 35'' tyres.

1) Well adjusted rear drums, LSPV and hand brake.
2) Upgrade brake boost to late 60 series/early 80 series duel diaphragm unit, virtually bolts straight in and looks stock, you will need to extend the under dash rod to the brake pedal by approximately 25mm, easily done.
3) Change front brake calipers to later model calipers, mine are the HZJ75 calipers from a 1990 model, they have larger pistons and a slightly larger pad (use good quality pads!
4) Change brake master cylinder to larger bore unit, standard is 7/8'', change to the 15/16'' which matches the HZJ75 calipers and a drum brake rear end.

The above are easily done with all factory parts and virtually undetectable unless you start checking part numbers.

With this setup my brakes are powerful and reasonably fade resistant, rear discs does not give more braking power, just better pad and mud resistance.
 
hey hulsty, are the hzj75 calipers bigger/more effective than the finned 4runner ones? Also is the bigger MC a toyota part?
ive got a set of surf/4runner calipers and hubs to go on mine when i get round to it
 
Great!

The 80 series brake booster is ordered.
I found the larger calipers and the matching 15/16" brake master cylinder (Minitruck/4Runner V6, cheaper than the HZJ7x one) ready to order online.

Thanks for your help guys! :cheers:
 
Also, use stock type rear brake shoes. Many of the aftermarket options are not very good and has less brake material on the shoe itself.

Also, use brand name parts, lots of the parts in the aftermarket are not that good. In my HJ61 the brakes were horrible - even with good stock style parts.

- I upgraded the calipers to the 1990 style 4Runner / HZJ77 type with the larger pistons and that use larger pad.
- Installed an 80 series booster and master.
- Used PBR metal master pads.
- Made absolutely sure my rear brakes were in excellent working order and the cables and linkages were properly adjusted - a very common mistake and cause of poor braking response.
- Used Japanese Mountain brand rotors with fresh bearings in the hubs.
- and installed fresh brake hoses to improve the pedal feel - that make a big difference over the soft, spongy original ones.
- Fresh brake fluid replaced at least annually to keep moisture out of the system.

The biggest improvements in pedal feel and braking response were from the pads and rotor improvements, in combination with the bigger master and stronger booster from the 80 series.

~John
 
Brake fluid play an important role in the braking efficiency as well.:)
Higher dot is the best.:p
 
Brake fluid play an important role in the braking efficiency as well.:)
Higher dot is the best.:p

Yeah, be careful with the anything other than dot 3 but. I've heard from a number of people (old mechanics) that dot 4 can swell/damage the seals in older toyotas. If you're using aftermarket or resealed parts it wouldn't be a problem. Also dot 5 is incompatible with all dot 3 systems I think
 
I'm running DOT 4 for years now and that is what the reservoir cap is saying.
Now I'm thinking about changing all the old flexible lines left to new ones, flushing the system and upgrading to DOT 5 brake fluid, which is not hygroscopic and the description of says its compatible to DOT 3 and DOT 4 systems.
 
I've used the DOT 5 stuff in the past and had problems with iron bore parts not lasting well - less lubricity?

The DOT 4 and DOT 3 products are very good, just flush it out every year or two depending on the humidity in your area and how hard you use your brakes/how hot they get.

DOT 4 is simply the same stuff as DOT 3 with a higher boiling point.


~John
 
My experience with 2 BJ74s, a (HZ)BJ73, a BJ70 and a BJ42 LX tells me that on average 50% of the pistons on any given landcruiser, will be seized in their bores if it hasn't had a caliper rebuild in recent memory. This gives you a symptom of a high and firm brake pedal, but limited braking ability.

On each of these cruisers except the BJ42, with a bit of work I've managed to go from trucks which were pretty much as described by a lot of the posters in this thread, to something which stops similarly to any reasonably comparable 4wd on the road.

Generally, given these have all come to me as pretty neglected trucks you do pretty much just replace every single component, but in my experience the two biggest factors are making sure that the front calipers are actually working and getting the adjustment on the drums correct.

Don't get me wrong, I think I'll still look at the 80 DD booster + bigger master + HZJ75 calipers, but only because I can, not because I need to.
 
Here we go:

14649726lj.jpg


I finished the 4Runner conversion yesterday (calipers and 15/16" M/C on old BB).
After disassembling the hub i noticed a shot oil seal and a missing claw washer what forced me to get new parts yesterday morning :bang:

After bleeding the system three times (calipers, drums and LSPV - M/C one time at first, no leaks) the pedal still feels terrible.
There is no brake response for about 50% of the brake pedal travel and less braking power than before :frown:
You can pump it up to better feeling, but just for a very short time.

I think there is still air in the system and i have to bleed it by a pro to get the full braking performance.


Anyway, thanks for your help :) :clap:
 
Often after lots of pumping and bleeding of the brakes the air in the system brakes down into tiny Champagne type bubbles spread through out the system. Give it a chance to sit and let the air settle back into larger bubbles and then try bleeding it again. I've seen lots of people give multiple pumps on the pedal before cracking the bleeder which just adds to the problem
 
Thanks for this tip :)

Problem solved :bounce::bounce2::bounce::bounce2:

I cleaned and re-adjusted the rear drums and bleeded the whole system again.
I used an old bicycle inner tube on the brake master cylinder reservoir and put some pressure on it instead of pumping the pedal.

Now the brakes feel nice and safe again and it stops pretty good so far. :grinpimp:
 

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