Upgraded cam, throttle body & exhaust (1 Viewer)

[cruisermatt]

It would seem that programming the new system would be the biggest deterrent no? Most people on here could wire it up, but getting the right tune on the engine is a whole different ball game.

it's not hard. its fuel and air and spark timing.

 

[Spook50]

If you are going to this length then I think switching to a MAF would yield better results. The AFM door has to be pretty limiting since the air flow has to physically open it.

There was one Mudder (@Moby if I remember right) who was experimenting with a MAF conversion and had it almost dialed in but lost his Cruiser in a freak fire. @cruisermatt is right though that a big limiting factor with airflow is the plenum size. Upside though is that the plenum IS slightly larger than the bore of the throttle body, so boring out the TB can yield an improvement when combined with an upgraded exhaust, and would be even more improved with an upgraded cam (for me I want more power at the high end so as to better handle long grades and mountain passes at highway speeds, especially when carrying more weight). I will argue that the ECU is more than just an emissions control device. What limits it is the fact that it's not easy to reprogram and the factory tune IS very limiting (as with most stock injection systems of the era). Reprogramming (or as suggested, a Microsquirt system) to take better advantage of the engine's configuration (especially after any upgrades) would likely net a big improvement in either fuel economy or performance (depending on which direction you wanted to go with the tune). I'm skilled with electronics (have a degree in electronics engineering actually), so getting a system set up would be doable with enough time and investment, BUT, to get it really dialed in I would need daily access to a dyno and a lot more knowledge with tuning A/F ratio curves, ignition curves, etc., and that's something I don't have. Same with setting up a sequential coil-on-plug ignition system (which believe me I would LOOOOOOOOVE to do, and have been somewhat half-assed looking into. Be easier on a straight-six than on a V8 I would imagine).

 

[cruisermatt]

If you're a electrical engineer then a simple EFI wire harness should be cake for you. No, you don't need daily access to a dyno for tuning a 160hp tractor engine. People with limited experience do homebrew EFI setups successfully very regularly with far more powerful and intricate setups.

If I wanted to make power with a 3FE I wouldn't waste my time at all with cam, intake porting, etc, i'd just get a turbo on there, some higher flow injectors, replace the fuel pressure regulator with one you can control, and see how AFR's do with the stock computer on low boost, like 3-5lbs. Just look at how it's working for the 1FZ 80 guys, their ECU is really not any more sophisticated. If you decided you want more power or tune-ability then go for a different computer, but I'd bet you start reaching limitations of the hardware.

Again I doubt anyone is actually going to put the effort in to do this again (it has been done, a few times, not recently), especially when any LS makes more power stock and the swap can be done for <$2k

 

[White Stripe]

Split second makes a maf conversion kit for the 3fe. Mild boost should not need a aftermarket ecu. 5psi should give 40 to 50 hp. Torque would really climb.

 

[Spook50]

If you're a electrical engineer then a simple EFI wire harness should be cake for you. No, you don't need daily access to a dyno for tuning a 160hp tractor engine. People with limited experience do homebrew EFI setups successfully very regularly with far more powerful and intricate setups.

If I wanted to make power with a 3FE I wouldn't waste my time at all with cam, intake porting, etc, i'd just get a turbo on there, some higher flow injectors, replace the fuel pressure regulator with one you can control, and see how AFR's do with the stock computer on low boost, like 3-5lbs. Just look at how it's working for the 1FZ 80 guys, their ECU is really not any more sophisticated. If you decided you want more power or tune-ability then go for a different computer, but I'd bet you start reaching limitations of the hardware.

Again I doubt anyone is actually going to put the effort in to do this again (it has been done, a few times, not recently), especially when any LS makes more power stock and the swap can be done for <$2k

Doing something functional wouldn't be overly difficult. Doing it RIGHT on the other hand would be a good deal of work. Electronics are fickle as hell, and with as much proprietary stuff as there is on our rigs it would take much more work than to do it on an older GM or Chrysler vehicle. Obviously that's not to say its impossible, but from my experience with other electrical projects (things I've modified and things I've built from the ground up), there are ALWAYS gremlins that come up that either have to be chased and worked out, or can be catastrophic to the point of having to start over from scratch because something got damaged (case in point, I've thrown away several of my prototype voltage regulators as I was developing the circuit because of trial and error. It's just the nature of the beast. What works on paper may or may not work once it's on a PCB). The biggest thing that'd keep me from tackling a project of this size is the fact that my 62 is not only my DD but my only vehicle, so until I have a second vehicle to drive during the required downtime, tackling something like this would definitely not be feasible. At least with intake and exhaust, it's an afternoon worth of work for each one, then a cam swap could be done in a long weekend.

@White Stripe I seem to remember the SS MAF kit, but IIRC (could be wrong here) it was specific for the 3FE used in the FJ80 and for some reason (I suspect difference in voltage signals) couldn't be used in a 62.

 

[White Stripe]

Doing something functional wouldn't be overly difficult. Doing it RIGHT on the other hand would be a good deal of work. Electronics are fickle as hell, and with as much proprietary stuff as there is on our rigs it would take much more work than to do it on an older GM or Chrysler vehicle. Obviously that's not to say its impossible, but from my experience with other electrical projects (things I've modified and things I've built from the ground up), there are ALWAYS gremlins that come up that either have to be chased and worked out, or can be catastrophic to the point of having to start over from scratch because something got damaged (case in point, I've thrown away several of my prototype voltage regulators as I was developing the circuit because of trial and error. It's just the nature of the beast. What works on paper may or may not work once it's on a PCB). The biggest thing that'd keep me from tackling a project of this size is the fact that my 62 is not only my DD but my only vehicle, so until I have a second vehicle to drive during the required downtime, tackling something like this would definitely not be feasible. At least with intake and exhaust, it's an afternoon worth of work for each one, then a cam swap could be done in a long weekend.

@White Stripe I seem to remember the SS MAF kit, but IIRC (could be wrong here) it was specific for the 3FE used in the FJ80 and for some reason (I suspect difference in voltage signals) couldn't be used in a 62.

You would have to talk to split second about that. I'm sure they could make it work if it is different. I'm pretty sure the voltage of the afm is the same between a 80 and 62.

 

[Moby]

Spook, good to hear from you I'm still around. After spending years looking for a clean FJ-62 I caved and bought a 200 Heritage Edition this winter for my son and I to do more basic mods to. I'll find another 62 to fully resto-mod though...

Anyway I had the split second MAF conversion working very well with my bored over, head/TB/intake ported, valved/springs, cam'd, exhaust, etc 2FE. I had it tied into my in dash carPC along with a wideband O2 for tuning (critical) so that I could see status on the fly, data log, etc. I'm a software engineer by profession.

I had several thousand miles on it. I had to have split second make me a custom version though because the altitude curve is reversed in the Toyota licensed copy of the Bosch FI that is in the BMWs split second originally designed these for (Toyota jump starter their conversion from carbs to FI by licensing and improving the Bosch FI design, at least as I understand the history). So when it went from sea level to altitude it ran pig rich. They had me a new unit with an adjustable curve right quick.

I see no reason for the 3FE in the '80 to be different than the '62. But it definitely works with our 3FE. Call them - they are great to work with. Tuning required though.

All that said, per my wideband o2 (Innovate Motorsports) the stock FI reacted fine to my mod'd 2FE. I ran the 2FE with the stock AFM for several years. Older FI is less precise and often more flexible than modern stuff. That's good and bad. Despite convention wisdom that you need to crack open the AFM and loosen the spring to compensate to mods that increase airflow I found this not to be true. A conservative adjustment of two teeth looser made it run into the 9s for A/F ratio under full load. Way too rich. At the stock setting it was in the 11s. Maybe a little rich but safe. Cruise and moderate load at stock setting was very nicely at 14.7 and smoothly transitioned to richer as load increased. And this was with a motor almost 10% statically larger than stock, not even considering the porting, cam, intake and exhaust adding even more.

I also tried to get a Unichip to work without success. And a J&S Vampire Safeguard (aftermarket knock guard). Both so I could run more timing. With the J&S I added more base timing with the intention to have the J&S pull timing on knock. It was unclear how well this was working. I was data logging and experimenting with knock sensor location (3FE is noisy!) when I lost the truck.

HTH. Happy to answer any questions...