...Resolved...Unresolved starting issue (1 Viewer)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Joined
Aug 10, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
32
Location
Montana
I have a 1988 FJ62, 187K. I have owned it since 2018, I'm the 3rd owner. I took it to a Toyota Dealer in Montana to have all the engine seals replaced. This was too big a job for me and I wanted it to go to a place that would have the expertise in completing the job. Every seal was replaced we even took care of the oil gallery plug. Since the engine was put back in, there have been some issues and one that has yet to be resolved.

The engine reseal was finished in mid March 2022 and we’ve had staring problems ever since. At first is was a rough start and then hard to start and then it was unreliable starting, that's when I took it back in. They’ve assured me there are no known vacuum leaks. The cold start injector switch (was determined to be faulty-ohm meter) plus coolant temperature switch at t-stat housing were changed out. The timing is dialed in and the throttle position sensor cleaned and exercised plus the idle air control motor cleaned and exercised. The starter was good and since the seals were done it has been replaced, which helped a lot and vehicle actually started 9x in a row, they thought it was fixed, but no. The fuel pump and fuel pressure are good, injectors do pulse and a new battery, rotor and distributor cap and plugs were replaced when engine seals were done and all grounds were checked.

What has been confirmed is that the injectors are not firing at startup. The engine will start and run after multiple (3-5) key turns from lock to on and then after this it usually fires up (this is after the starter was replaced). The engine after starting runs great, and the injectors do pulse while it's running, we're having the problem at startup.

Recently a donor ECM replaced the existing original ECM to eliminate the question of a bad ECM. No changes were observed, and it was confirmed that it is not the ECM.

The ignition switch was suggested, but as of now they have ruled that out as being the issue. They have looked really closely at the wiring harness too, since that was moved out of the way when engine was pulled.

As of right now....they are trying to track down what gives the ECM the signal to fire the injectors. They know the ECM makes the injectors fire, but what tells the ECM to fire injectors? They have followed the FSM for this year and model especially the fuel injection schematics.

I may not be including everything they have done and they have probably done more diagnosis, testing and troubleshooting than I have described here.

I have checked several forums and have not found this specific issue. If I missed it, please point me in the right direction.

Any suggestions/solutions would be appreciated. Prior to the repair, the engine started right up without any issues.

I'll try and answer questions asap, I may be slower to reply than you may be expecting.

Thank you
 
Last edited:
I don't think dealerships have any expertise with these vehicles. If you are unable to work on it yourself, find someone that truly knows these vehicles. Ask on this forum, local clubs, etc.
 
I don't think dealerships have any expertise with these vehicles. If you are unable to work on it yourself, find someone that truly knows these vehicles. Ask on this forum, local clubs, etc.
I had a feeling someone would comment on the Dealer. You're definitely entitled to your opinion. I don't think I would characterize that all Master Tech's at Toyota Dealerships don't have any expertise with these.
I have worked on it, I will work on it, I want to get it back to where it was before the engine reseal.
Isn't this the place to ask questions, to someone out there on ih8mud, who knows these vehicles and can maybe offer some solutions to the issue I'm having?
 
Last edited:
I think what @Cruzerman was stating is that most of the techs were born after this rig was made and they can't just hook a computor up to it and get an answer.

so the engine is turning over but not firing?
temp sensor, AFM, are 2 things I'd start with.
is the fuel pump running?
will a squirt of starting fluid before cranking start the engine?

what part of the state are you in?
 
I think what @Cruzerman was stating is that most of the techs were born after this rig was made and they can't just hook a computor up to it and get an answer.

so the engine is turning over but not firing?
temp sensor, AFM, are 2 things I'd start with.
is the fuel pump running?
will a squirt of starting fluid before cranking start the engine?

what part of the state are you in?
Definitely understand what you are saying, there could be more reliance on the technology than there should be with these older models.
Yes, engine turns over but without fuel, doesn't fire up.
The temp sensor at the thermostat was changed out and they have checked the air flow meter and confirmed that works too. I did get a spare temp sensor (green connector), maybe we need to switch it out again.
Yes, the fuel pump is operational at start too...
Yes, when you add a little fuel before cranking engine, it starts right up.

I'm near Billings.
 
someone posted a few days/week ago about cleaning the cold start injector, as it gets all crudded up.

here's a link:

 
Definitely understand what you are saying, there could be more reliance on the technology than there should be with these older models.
Yes, engine turns over but without fuel, doesn't fire up.
The temp sensor at the thermostat was changed out and they have checked the air flow meter and confirmed that works too. I did get a spare temp sensor (green connector), maybe we need to switch it out again.
Yes, the fuel pump is operational at start too...
Yes, when you add a little fuel before cranking engine, it starts right up.

I'm near Billings.
what @3_puppies said. You could very well be dealing with the cold start injector, and the fix might be as simple as giving it a good cleaning. Do you have the FSM? If you don't there are links to it in a number of places on Mud (just do a quick search and you'll get hits). If you do, track down the trouble shooting section re: the problems that you are experiencing and tick things off of the list. It sounds like you are already a good way through that list.

I've got a 62 as well. Tracking down the source of problems like the one you are your experiencing is very frustrating (I know). I've learned a few things the hard way since I bought my 62. One of the most important is - don't start throwing parts at before diagnosing what's gone wrong.

I don't hang around in tech nearly as much as I should (I just dope around over in chit-chat), but one thing that both sides of the side have in common is smart-assery and strong opinions. Give as good as you get and you'll enjoy being here that much more.

Good luck fixing your starting issue. I hope that it ends up being something very simple. Post up when you've found the culprit.

Welcome, by the way.... and

:flipoff2:
 
I had a feeling someone would comment on the Dealer. We've got a winner. You're definitely entitled to your opinion. I don't think I would characterize that all Master Tech's at Toyota Dealerships don't have any expertise with these.
I have worked on it, I will work on it, I want to get it back to where it was before the engine reseal.
Isn't this the place to ask questions, to someone out there on ih8mud, who knows these vehicles and can maybe offer some solutions to the issue I'm having?
I wasn't saying that they don't have some good mechanics at the dealership. I'm guessing most dealerships have some good mechanics and some not so good. Just like any other shop. I'm just saying that most of them have never worked on one of these rigs, so have no more knowledge than any other shop. If you can find someone that has experience with these vehicles, you'll be better off. These are their own beasts. As always, JMHO. And good luck.
 
someone posted a few days/week ago about cleaning the cold start injector, as it gets all crudded up.

here's a link:

Thank you @3_puppies, for the suggestion. This was cleaned at the engine reseal and it was gunked up.
 
I wasn't saying that they don't have some good mechanics at the dealership. I'm guessing most dealerships have some good mechanics and some not so good. Just like any other shop. I'm just saying that most of them have never worked on one of these rigs, so have no more knowledge than any other shop. If you can find someone that has experience with these vehicles, you'll be better off. These are their own beasts. As always, JMHO. And good luck.
Yes, I agree, since these 60 series are in the 30-40 year old range now, there are less mechanics that are around now when these first came out who know them inside and out. There is also less information out there about them, less original parts which makes it quite the challenge for ownership. It is good to have folks on ih8mud to bounce things off of and try to conquer the beast.
 
what @3_puppies said. You could very well be dealing with the cold start injector, and the fix might be as simple as giving it a good cleaning. Do you have the FSM? If you don't there are links to it in a number of places on Mud (just do a quick search and you'll get hits). If you do, track down the trouble shooting section re: the problems that you are experiencing and tick things off of the list. It sounds like you are already a good way through that list.

I've got a 62 as well. Tracking down the source of problems like the one you are your experiencing is very frustrating (I know). I've learned a few things the hard way since I bought my 62. One of the most important is - don't start throwing parts at before diagnosing what's gone wrong.

I don't hang around in tech nearly as much as I should (I just dope around over in chit-chat), but one thing that both sides of the side have in common is smart-assery and strong opinions. Give as good as you get and you'll enjoy being here that much more.

Good luck fixing your starting issue. I hope that it ends up being something very simple. Post up when you've found the culprit.

Welcome, by the way.... and

:flipoff2:
Yes, I have the 88 FSM and that cold start injector was cleaned at the engine reseal. Definitely frustrating after nearly 5 months, and one of the reasons I've reached out to this site. I'll definitely post when we get past this issue. Thanks!
 
I have a 1988 FJ62, 187K. I have owned it since 2018, I'm the 3rd owner. I took it to a Toyota Dealer in Montana to have all the engine seals replaced. This was too big a job for me and I wanted it to go to a place that would have the expertise in completing the job. Every seal was replaced we even took care of the oil gallery plug. Since the engine was put back in, there have been some issues and one that has yet to be resolved.

The engine reseal was finished in mid March 2022 and we’ve had staring problems ever since. At first is was a rough start and then hard to start and then it was unreliable starting, that's when I took it back in. They’ve assured me there are no known vacuum leaks. The cold start injector switch (was determined to be faulty-ohm meter) plus coolant temperature switch at t-stat housing were changed out. The timing is dialed in and the throttle position sensor cleaned and exercised plus the idle air control motor cleaned and exercised. The starter was good and since the seals were done it has been replaced, which helped a lot and vehicle actually started 9x in a row, they thought it was fixed, but no. The fuel pump and fuel pressure are good, injectors do pulse and a new battery, rotor and distributor cap and plugs were replaced when engine seals were done and all grounds were checked.

What has been confirmed is that the injectors are not firing at startup. The engine will start and run after multiple (3-5) key turns from lock to on and then after this it usually fires up (this is after the starter was replaced). The engine after starting runs great, and the injectors do pulse while it's running, we're having the problem at startup.

Recently a donor ECM replaced the existing original ECM to eliminate the question of a bad ECM. No changes were observed, and it was confirmed that it is not the ECM.

The ignition switch was suggested, but as of now they have ruled that out as being the issue. They have looked really closely at the wiring harness too, since that was moved out of the way when engine was pulled.

As of right now....they are trying to track down what gives the ECM the signal to fire the injectors. They know the ECM makes the injectors fire, but what tells the ECM to fire injectors? They have followed the FSM for this year and model especially the fuel injection schematics.

I may not be including everything they have done and they have probably done more diagnosis, testing and troubleshooting than I have described here.

I have checked several forums and have not found this specific issue. If I missed it, please point me in the right direction.

Any suggestions/solutions would be appreciated. Prior to the repair, the engine started right up without any issues.

I'll try and answer questions asap, I may be slower to reply than you may be expecting.

Thank you
I have a 1988 FJ62, 187K. I have owned it since 2018, I'm the 3rd owner. I took it to a Toyota Dealer in Montana to have all the engine seals replaced. This was too big a job for me and I wanted it to go to a place that would have the expertise in completing the job. Every seal was replaced we even took care of the oil gallery plug. Since the engine was put back in, there have been some issues and one that has yet to be resolved.

The engine reseal was finished in mid March 2022 and we’ve had staring problems ever since. At first is was a rough start and then hard to start and then it was unreliable starting, that's when I took it back in. They’ve assured me there are no known vacuum leaks. The cold start injector switch (was determined to be faulty-ohm meter) plus coolant temperature switch at t-stat housing were changed out. The timing is dialed in and the throttle position sensor cleaned and exercised plus the idle air control motor cleaned and exercised. The starter was good and since the seals were done it has been replaced, which helped a lot and vehicle actually started 9x in a row, they thought it was fixed, but no. The fuel pump and fuel pressure are good, injectors do pulse and a new battery, rotor and distributor cap and plugs were replaced when engine seals were done and all grounds were checked.

What has been confirmed is that the injectors are not firing at startup. The engine will start and run after multiple (3-5) key turns from lock to on and then after this it usually fires up (this is after the starter was replaced). The engine after starting runs great, and the injectors do pulse while it's running, we're having the problem at startup.

Recently a donor ECM replaced the existing original ECM to eliminate the question of a bad ECM. No changes were observed, and it was confirmed that it is not the ECM.

The ignition switch was suggested, but as of now they have ruled that out as being the issue. They have looked really closely at the wiring harness too, since that was moved out of the way when engine was pulled.

As of right now....they are trying to track down what gives the ECM the signal to fire the injectors. They know the ECM makes the injectors fire, but what tells the ECM to fire injectors? They have followed the FSM for this year and model especially the fuel injection schematics.

I may not be including everything they have done and they have probably done more diagnosis, testing and troubleshooting than I have described here.

I have checked several forums and have not found this specific issue. If I missed it, please point me in the right direction.

Any suggestions/solutions would be appreciated. Prior to the repair, the engine started right up without any issues.

I'll try and answer questions asap, I may be slower to reply than you may be expecting.

Thank you
Update...We're not getting injector pulse at start up. Similar to what was originally posted. A new distributor was installed and tested and this did not resolve the issue. That part was returned. It seems to me an electrical/wiring or electrical component tied to the starting of the vehicle that is preventing a signal to fire injectors.
 
Last edited:
I'd go back over the motor and check that all the grounds were reinstalled. Since the engine wiring had to be disconnected when the engine was pulled something as simple as a ground wire may have been overlooked and causing the intermittent issue.
 
I'd go back over the motor and check that all the grounds were reinstalled. Since the engine wiring had to be disconnected when the engine was pulled something as simple as a ground wire may have been overlooked and causing the intermittent issue.
What Godwin says. I have a 62 and can assure you that you will eventually find and fix this. Frustrating while you are going through it but you will find it!
As mentioned before it is generally the simple stuff. I see you’ve been through the temp sensor, MAF, fuel pump etc. All similar stuff that I went through chasing my issues down. Unlike others, I threw parts at mine without success.
Since the engine was out my bet is that you have a loose ground or wire. Loose MAF connector or EFI ground would be my first places to investigate. Photos below.
Good luck but you’ll get there.

CA3B56FD-4871-4FD3-AB9A-0CEF98F2965D.jpeg


819280E0-3CD5-49C9-AE7F-6BE5F76310B4.jpeg
 
What Godwin says. I have a 62 and can assure you that you will eventually find and fix this. Frustrating while you are going through it but you will find it!
As mentioned before it is generally the simple stuff. I see you’ve been through the temp sensor, MAF, fuel pump etc. All similar stuff that I went through chasing my issues down. Unlike others, I threw parts at mine without success.
Since the engine was out my bet is that you have a loose ground or wire. Loose MAF connector or EFI ground would be my first places to investigate. Photos below.
Good luck but you’ll get there.

View attachment 3117055

View attachment 3117056
Thank you very much for the suggestion. I will check and verify these connections. I also appreciate the support. Your positivity and encouragement was something that I really needed to hear right now.
 
Last edited:
I'd go back over the motor and check that all the grounds were reinstalled. Since the engine wiring had to be disconnected when the engine was pulled something as simple as a ground wire may have been overlooked and causing the intermittent issue.
Thank you, I appreciate the suggestion. I will re-verify all the grounds and see if we can find something that is not connected or faulty.
 
I’d check the ground wires as stated above and also check the fusible link. Good tech on how to diagnose a fusible link found HERE <— Link

HTH
 
I don't know if you have done this or not. But have you checked CEL code? sometimes even if the CEL light is not on there is usually a code lingering in the memory. If you have a code it could direct you to your problem.
 
Last edited:
Did you do a new fuel pressure regulator and fuel pulsation dampener? Those two things failing can lead to the symptoms you are having.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom