Turbo Position (2 Viewers)

[Dougal]

Anyone else noticed none of the original posters posters weren't answered.

Actually all of them were. Who made the T3's, where you find them now, the exact measurements of adapters which will make the T3 fit a CT26 manifold.
Including that the T3 is a whole family of turbos available in a range of sizes.

Some people help, some people just cry and start throwing insults when people disagree.
The real shame is a lot of very valuable information has been lost from this site due to pettiness.

3B's die at stock power levels (I have towed dead ones back to civilisation), it's not difficult to understand why it's a silly idea to try and get 2.4 times the torque from one.

Hello,
I am using the 13BT manifold from G&S, bout $450.00. I am also using the CT-26 from a Supra turbo, 'bout $100.00 from craigs list. After installing a TinyTach diesel tachometer, I was finally able to map the boost RPM curve. At 1500 RPM-5psi, 1900RPM-10psi, and 2200RPM-15psi, and 2500RPM-18-20psi.

2500rpm to get max boost, that's not good.

You have still refused to post any real pictures of ANYTHING you have done, well ROVERBOY you gonna step up and produce some flicks of ANYTHING you have done?

There are plenty of pictures I've posted to this site of turbos I've fitted, parts I've fabricated and drawings to help others. If you can't find them you'll find the "search" button not far from the top of the page.
There's no point posting pictures of my complete vehicle here as it's presense will cause some people to get their back up and start ranting.
The same people who add negative comments to the profile of people they disagree with.

Those who are interested can find it on www.4btswaps.com, I've posted that up many times.

 

[Tapage]

2500rpm to get max boost, that's not good.

IN this case I thought it's pretty nice .. you found ( as same as my case ) you can drive your factory NA hight compresion engine at low rpm with much stress .. virtually no or low boost ..

And when you need it you have plenty of powa available from your turbo ..

 

[Dougal]

so,
Roverboy
i will ask again...

?why? did they die?
spun rod bearing?
poor oiling?
busted crank?
cracked head?
dropped precup?
blown head gasket?
rear main seal?
front crank seal?
busted cam?
dropped valve?

what EXACTLY 'power related weakness' killed the "dead" ones you towed back to civilization?
how many km on them?
what maintianence was done prior to dieing?
what was the circumstances surrounding the event? deep water fording?
steep hill climbs?
dusty conditions?

or they just died running down a flat road on a nice cool day...

oh wait, I KNOW THE ANSWER!! they were towing 4 ton behind them...of course... how could i miss the obvious... and of course the driver was towing the weight AT YOUR ADVICE.

Flat road, cold day (middle of winter), next to no weight on board.
Dropped at least one precup, lunching everything inside one cylinder and the head too.

Looks like this thread is on the way to deletion too.

 

[crushers]

dropped precup and that is "power" related how?

when a precup drops (those of you that do not know how it happens) is caused by overheating the cylinder. the precup cracks in roughly half and drops into the combustion chamber where it hammers away on both the pistion and the head (usually busting some chips off the valve or busting the valve stem on impact.
"dropping a precup" is NOT power related but driver related, oh wise Roverboy.

hold on, you said "ones" (plural)
so?
what about the others...

 

[crushers]

and how is asking a question "Looks like this thread is on the way to deletion too."...

no one is insulting anyone, just asking a fair question especially when you are now belittling one of the toughest engines Toyota has made ... on a Toyota forum and driven by most on this blog...

 

[Dougal]

dropped precup and that is "power" related how?

No it's not power related, that's factory.
If you want 2.4 times the torque then you needs 2.4 times the cylinder pressure and around 2.4 times more heat into the head and water jacket.
I would have expected a mechanic to understand that.

Take components that fail already at factory levels and subject them to 2.4 times that. Not a wise move.
Anyone got dyno charts for a boosted 3B? I know there're some around here somewhere.

hold on, you said "ones" (plural)
so?

Dictionary time for you.

 

[Dougal]

He isn't trolling, he is doing the same as more than few have done on this board, calling BS, on your knowitall posts. You don't own a Toyota, dislike Toyotas, and think there are no other turbos than the mighty GT25, 2052. Whenever anyone who disagrees or uses anything than the GT25, is horribly wrong and is going to be exploding any moment. Please go away! You are not wanted here!
So take your pretty internet pirated pictures of turbos and whatnot and disappear into the ether. You still haven't posted pictures of anything you have produced, in fact I think you are a pimply faced internet troll, who doesn't even have a drivers license, much less a car.
eric

I don't recommend the GT25 eric, the T25 is a different turbo.
Please learn to read, learn to stop trolling and insulting others who disagree with you.

There is only one person on this forum who has taken the time to plot compressor maps for the 3B engine and draw up adapters to allow the fitment of better turbos.
That person is not you.

P.S. I don't dislike toyota at all, I may not own one at present but I get to drive plenty of them.
All the pictures, photos and drawings I have posted are mine, except of course for garrett turbo maps which have been altered by me.
Last I checked I do have a drivers license, but I should check the expiry date. I have three cars, two are 4wd and diesel.

 

[Dougal]

For those willing to try cranking 520Nm out of their 3B. You'll need around 28psi boost, a very good intercooler (shed 60% of the charge temp) and fuelling to match.

I don't recommend it.

 

[TOBASH]

I've been watching the thread for a while and...

...
1) Stop the f'ing bickering. Somebody back down.

2) You don't need a new or a ball bearing turbo. Get thee to Ye Ol' Junkyard and find a Saab 900 SPG or 9000 turbo with a Mitsubishi turbo. Then take out the Inter cooler too. Then buy a rebuild kit from Eeuroparts.com for 100 bucks. Mitsu turbos are so easy to rebuild they are brainless. The money you save can buy 4 used turbos or 8 rebuilds in case of failure. Turbos in that position are easy to replace in under an hour.

3) Saab 900 turbos prove that exhaust ports need not be balanced. Indeed the exhaust side looks like the stock 2b/3b Landcruiser Diesel exhaust. The spent air all comes out by the number 1 exhaust port. That means you can design your exhaust to keep the turbo away from things you want it to be away from.

4) If you use an intercooler and don't allow the turbo to increase pressures above 8PSI you should not increase head temps that much. Over 8 PSI and something is gonna give.

5) Consider water injection to keep head temps down.

6) And just to restate it...Stop wasting time with the bickering!!!!!!!!!!!!! Crushers, I have spoken with you on the phone and you are a great guy. Just walk away man! And Dougal, if you are really an engineer, then you must remember when there were teachers and students you did not like, so I am sure you must have known how to zip a lip and walk away too. And everyone else needs to stop fanning the flames of this argument. Jeez!

I am new here. No offense is intended.

Best,

T

 

[crushers]

1) how did the disintegrated valve stem seals get past the oil screen?
(that is what it is there for, right?)

2) you didn't check to make sure the "crappy" aircleaner wasn't crappy?

3) Chrome on chrome... interesting. where did you find chrome sleeves

and just to make sure we all understand your post about the turbo you are recommending... a stock 3.8L isuzu with this turbo is ALL you have done to accomplish the 520Nm?? nothing else...

 

[Dougal]

1) how did the disintegrated valve stem seals get past the oil screen?
(that is what it is there for, right?)

2) you didn't check to make sure the "****py" aircleaner wasn't ****py?

3) Chrome on chrome... interesting. where did you find chrome sleeves

and just to make sure we all understand your post about the turbo you are recommending... a stock 3.8L isuzu with this turbo is ALL you have done to accomplish the 520Nm?? nothing else...

This history goes back 15 years, to before I owned the vehicle. I have had it 7 years and done 80,000km.

The oil screen holes were just bigger than the springs on the valve stem seals. Most got caught, but at least one part got through.

The aircleaner happened to the previous owner. I built my own replacement air cleaner housing which uses the 100 series toyota washable element.

These engines have replacable chromard cylinder liners.

More boost (stock approx 12psi, now 20psi) and fuel to match (don't know what stock EGT's are but it now runs 750 preturbo) gives me 520Nm.

How big are the mains and big ends on a 3B?

 

[crushers]

okay, you never did any of the rebuilds...good enough. thanks.

impressive, 750F preturbo with 520Nm at 20psi...you can create 20psi with no load on the engine...

one question though...the SPRINGS of the valve stem seals made it from the top of the engine to the bottom and at least one made it past the oil strainer holes? are you sure of this?

 

[Dougal]

okay, you never did any of the rebuilds...good enough. thanks.

impressive, 750F preturbo with 520Nm at 20psi...you can create 20psi with no load on the engine...

one question though...the SPRINGS of the valve stem seals made it from the top of the engine to the bottom and at least one made it past the oil strainer holes? are you sure of this?

I did the last two rebuilds myself (the chrome rings, chrome liners one and the current one).
Even you should know that no-one outside the US uses Fahrenheit.

Yes. I was shown the oil pump, the strainer had several spring pieces still stuck through the holes.
The machine shop that fitted the valve guides/seals and the manufacturer of the valve stem seals had to pay for the engine to be rebuilt.

 

[Tapage]

Nice chat guys ..

From my knowledge, to drop a precup in your clinder, you need to crack it ( and heavy .. coz I've seen here plenty of 2H with craked precups drivind and pushings hard, actually the owner never notice any issue more than more time to start at mornings ) to crak it you need to push it hard ..

We, or at least me, drive a pyro .. pre turbo, so I'm clean in the temps that I run .. I boost as heavy as I can my 2H .. I have a crack precup . ? I will let you know when I open my engine ( not planed soon ) or when it explode ..

 

[crushers]

if you did the last 2 rebuilds then you should have warranty from the supplier since they supplied both the chrome rings and the chrome sleeves. how come you never went after them?

see if i have this right: correct my figuring if need be:
you owned it for the last 80K
last rebuild 40,000 km ago (your rebuild)
rebuild chrome on chrome lasted 27,000 km (your rebuild)
13K missing
rebuild after crappy air cleaner
first rebuild at 300K

The motor has had four rebuilds because of bad aftermarket parts.
300K #1 Valve stem seals which disintegrated and went through the oil pump.
463K #2 Dust erosion due to a crappy aircleaner.
490K #3 Chrome rings supplied with chrome liners, (yours)they ate each other within 27,000km.
530K (300K + 230K)(80K since you bought it) present milage

i am missing sonething here, you say you did 2 rebuilds in the last 80K but there is 13K missing in the chronological order of events between the dust related rebuild and the chrome ooops. just curious...


you like to assume that everyone can read your mind, sorry, the only one that can read minds as far as i know is my wife...and then only mine.
the newer generations in NA think in C, us old farts think in F as well as most of the people i have chatted with that own cruisers...easier to just post up C or F to prevent confusion. there are a lot of Americans on this site.

hummm, so the valve seal retaining springs busted into pieces, dropped down through the oil return and in through the strainer messing up the oil pump... wow! bad luck indeed...first time i heard such a nasty peice of work...

I did the last two rebuilds myself (the chrome rings, chrome liners one and the current one).
Even you should know that no-one outside the US uses Fahrenheit.

Yes. I was shown the oil pump, the strainer had several spring pieces still stuck through the holes.
The machine shop that fitted the valve guides/seals and the manufacturer of the valve stem seals had to pay for the engine to be rebuilt.

 

[Dougal]

if you did the last 2 rebuilds then you should have warranty from the supplier since they supplied both the chrome rings and the chrome sleeves. how come you never went after them?

Because it wasn't worth the 6 months of wrangling. They came to the party with a deal on some new parts I needed.

i am missing sonething here, you say you did 2 rebuilds in the last 80K but there is 13K missing in the chronological order of events between the dust related rebuild and the chrome ooops. just curious...

First rebuild by me (aircleaner) was 13,000km after I got it.
Second rebuild by me (chrome on chrome) was 40,000km after I got it.
I have since done 40,000km.

13+27+40 = 80.

Or if you wanted to work backwards you would have found the 13 you couldn't find before.
80-40-27 = 13.

As you'll probably know, damage by dust isn't sudden or catastrophic, it's just accelerated wear. Even though I'd fixed the aircleaner problem after 13,000km of driving it I'd had enough of the extra blowby so did something about it. Unfortunately I trusted the parts supplier too much.

27,000km later I fixed it properly, this time the rings (which come bundled with the pistons) were tossed and the results were good.

 

[Otterav]

You've got that wrong.
The motor has had four rebuilds because of bad aftermarket parts.
#1 Valve stem seals which disintegrated and went through the oil pump.
#2 Dust erosion due to a crappy aircleaner.
#3 Chrome rings supplied with chrome liners, they ate each other within 27,000km.

Current build has 40,000km on it with no issues. Thrust bearings are in.
In total my engine has over half a million km on it. Before rebuild #1 it had done approx 300,000km, it's totaled 230,000km since.

How much torque do you have? To get 520Nm on a 3B you need around 28psi with a decent intercooler.

Give me a speed, rpm and gradient and I'll tell you.

I have enough torque to get me down the road, thanks though!
Sounds like mad mechanical skillz:
#1 don't know how the bits got through the oil pickup screen.
#2 Sounds like poor mechanical skills.
#3 Funny I have replaced hundreds of aircraft cylinders chrome and not, always could tell the diff.
#4 New or used thrust brgs?
I don't know how many Nms I have, don't really care, either. Driving is what I do, if I wanted big HP, a crate 350 would be under the hood. I like the balance of the 3B. Great torque and enough power to get me down the road. My intercooler will be mounted after the big annual camp /wheel fest.
eric








4

 

[Otterav]

dude, give me a link to this info...
interesting find...

Gleaned from 4btswaps:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/231865-twin-turbo.html
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/search.php?searchid=104325
Register, then search term "dougal" lots of entertaining reading!
eric

 

[Dougal]

I have enough torque to get me down the road, thanks though!

The 2L's have enough torque to get down the road too.

Sounds like mad mechanical skillz:
#1 don't know how the bits got through the oil pickup screen.
#2 Sounds like poor mechanical skills.
#3 Funny I have replaced hundreds of aircraft cylinders chrome and not, always could tell the diff.
#4 New or used thrust brgs?

Scraping the barrell a little are we?

#1, it's clearly obvious how bits get through the screen, the pieces are smaller than the holes in the screen.
#2, wasn't my work.
#3, parts supplied together in a kit.
#4, thrust bearings are new, changed them last week. Changing crank bearings isn't a rebuild, it's a small job with the sump off.

I've got more torque than a crate 350 and it's there at 1500rpm. Since you've been talking about installing one of these engines, I thought you might have done some homework. Looks like you haven't.

I forgot to mention, the same day I had the electrical short and got towed 2km home, my corolla ground to a halt on the side of the road. Had to wait 2 hours on the roadside to get it trailered back to town. Simple cause, alternator died.

 

[crushers]

cool on the parts... at least they did something.

yes, the 13K was the missing as i posted but you didn't say wether the engien was running or not when you got it. it just didn't add up. no biggie. just want to make sure i had my facts straight.

Because it wasn't worth the 6 months of wrangling. They came to the party with a deal on some new parts I needed.




First rebuild by me (aircleaner) was 13,000km after I got it.
Second rebuild by me (chrome on chrome) was 40,000km after I got it.
I have since done 40,000km.

13+27+40 = 80.

Or if you wanted to work backwards you would have found the 13 you couldn't find before.
80-40-27 = 13.

As you'll probably know, damage by dust isn't sudden or catastrophic, it's just accelerated wear. Even though I'd fixed the aircleaner problem after 13,000km of driving it I'd had enough of the extra blowby so did something about it. Unfortunately I trusted the parts supplier too much.

27,000km later I fixed it properly, this time the rings (which come bundled with the pistons) were tossed and the results were good.