turbo PI test 1997 HZJ75 (1 Viewer)

[crushers]

so I have an old 1997 HZJ75 with 35s, topper etc and it was gutless to say the least and when I towed my bush truck behind it was still...gutless.
so after doing very little research I bought a new turbo off Bruce Lowen. he gave me a wicked deal, thanks Bruce. went to Alamo to have some oil in and out adapters made up as well as an exhaust flange.
now I had an itch to get rid of, so out came the factory manuals for the 1H and the 1HDT and a comparison was made. the bosses were there for the oil pressure line and the return line so I figured this was going to be a blast. I was wrong. I got excited and broke a drill bit off in one journal so that was the end of that idea so I tapped into the oil pressure sending unit and got the oil from there.
the manifold is a center dump and surprising the 2 back holes of the exhaust manifold lined up almost bang on with the 2 back holes of the turbo. 1/2 plate and a few holes drilled and tapped and the adapter was ready for shaping between the manifold and the turbo. the setup turned out clean and a sweet fit.
the way the turbo ended up it was a simple but expensive plumbing set-up. the hose from the air box to the turbo was $110 and the exhaust down pipe and from the turbo to the intake was another $100. I installed an EGT and a boost gauge into the dash for a clean appearance inside as well.
I drove it home from the muffler shop and was greatly disappointed. it didn't feel any different. this morning I took it for a run on the highway and now the boost was showing and it was performing much better but still not what I expected. I cranked up the fuel and now the puppy just rocks. what a total difference.
you were right Mike, it doesn't feel like the same engine at all. now I am looking forward to driving it as often as I can.
cheers,
since I posted this to the local mailing list I have added propane injection. it is different from the usual kit as the propane comes on with the boost setting chosen. the kit is very complete needing no modifications. I ran 2 X 20 lb bottles of propane in the back in preparation of the up coming trip to Pismo California. this should last 8 tanks of diesel as per calculations. I ran the lines as well as the electrics along the frame and up into the engine compartment. I drilled and tapped a boost line into the boost chamber and also a line into the air filter housing running a foot of hose down inside toward the turbo as per instructions. the biggest pain was running the wiring inside to make a clean install. I modified the switches to fit in the dash and ran the wiring out of sight behind the components.
after all was done I went for a test drive with my helper. he was to keep track of the performance difference between PI and Non-PI times.
here is the results:
0-140 km/hr (85 mph) up hill
43 sec without propane injection
34 sec with propane

0-100 km/hr (60 mph) on the flat
15 sec without propane injection
12 sec with propane injection

so as you can see the performance did do a subtle improvement. it does seem to help with the black smoke and the temperature seems to be about 50 degrees cooler at highway speeds (120 km/hr).
if wanted I can post the results after my trip to California as to fuel economy and over all performance.
cheers, (I just needed to share)

Wayne
www.luxuryimports.ca JDM imports
www.crushersrule.com restorations and trip reports
speed kills-live forever- drive a Toyota

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

I was told that you werent ever supposed to propane inject INdirect injected engines.

I was told it is way to hard on the pre combustion chamber.

Any thoughts on that one?




TB

 

[crushers]

i did a small amount of research and never had that come up. i guess i will find out.
i am curious why that would be since the cylinders are actually running cooler and more efficent with PI. where did you read this so i can do a bit more reading?
i guess i am about to find out...
cheers
Wayne

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

Wayne, I heard it from a guy in Australia. I was researching getting a Safari turbo kit for my HZ, and in the conversation this guy told me NEVER to PI an indirect injected engine.

Are you going to sell that set up as a kit? If so I may want one from you.


Tom

 

[The Dude]

Good job Wayne!!

I hit you up on the RMLCA list for the details.

I didn't realize that engine had pre-cups...you are a brave man. I have heard the same rumours as TB about PI on a IDI deisel. I hope you prove it wrong. This would take away my fears of PI on the 3B

 

[crushers]

i guess i will find out on the way through the States. i would love to see why they say the precups are more prone to failure with PI in comparision with just turboing. something just isn't making sense to me...
only one way to find out for sure i guess...
cheers
BTW the top end right now is 165 km/hr with 4.11s and 33" tires...

 

[crushers]

Are you going to sell that set up as a kit? If so I may want one from you.


Tom

i won't sell the turbo and PI as a kit till i have tested it further. i have 1800 miles to put on in the next 2 weeks and that should give me a chance to see what kind of problems might come up.
i think i might have to replace a rear ujoint already. i guess LC and speed shifts are not made for each other. i did this so i can pull my bush truck easier. i am not trying to build a race cruiser but i just had to find out what kind of performance is now available...
i guess next i am looking for an intercooler. anyone have a suggestion of what might work on a HZJ75 with no AC?
cheers
Wayne

 

[beanz2]

Wayne, if push comes to shove, I got a spare 1HZ or two

Been thinking of running a 100 series intercooler as it is small (6.5 cm thick, 27 x 34 cm) and it is sized for a 4.2L diesel. I got AC so in front of the radiator isn't an easy option for me. I might try to move the grille forward. Aren't there any thin intecoolers out there?

BTW, let's meet at In-N-Out Burger parking lot in Gilroy, CA on Friday for Surf N Turf. Can't wait to check out the PI.

Dave

 

[crushers]

Morning Dave,
i seriously hope i don't end up needing a replacement engine. i have one spare but knowing there are a couple others around is reassuring.
i was thinking if all else fails maybe a liquid to air intercooler. the only down side is the need for a hood scoop and i have not seen any that would look nice on a 75 hood. if you know of a scoop that looks good please let me know...
In-N-Out sounds fine to me. looking forward to meeting some new faces. i guess there is 100 or more registered for Pismo so i doubt we will meet everyone but i am sure we all will have a blast.
cheers
Wayne

 

[Stone]

Doesn't the propane make the diesel more combustible? And if the combustion starts in the pre-cups, maybe this is why they are afraid of doing PI on an IDI engine...maybe makes it too volatile? It's my intuitive guess anyway.

 

[crushers]

the only thing i have heard about PI on IDI engines is that it does not help much at all on NA IDI engines and not worth the cost to buy and install...
would it be more volitile if it is a catalist for the diesel. i can see it if too much Propane was being dumped in but it is a incrimental increase in relation to the boost, not a dump method...
not arguing, just boucing ideas, trying to get my head around "bad for..."
cheers
Wayne

 

[The Dude]

It is going to come down to cylinder pressure that the added PI creates. This pressure is what will cause the pre-cup to crack. At least that's my theory behind it. It is similiar to adding to much boost to increase your cylinder pressure. With too much boost, what's the first to go on a engine with precups. I would think it would be the head becuase of the pre-cup design. So it might not be those that fail, but because of them that you have a failure...

just thinking out loud.

 

[crushers]

you could be right but then there is so little propane added (a 20 lb bottle is said to last 4 tanks of fuel) it is a catalist to help burn the unburned diesel, it souldn't be any more harmful than a fuel additive that we all add, right?
i will contact the company and see if they have heard anything along these lines.
cheers
Wayne

 

[The Dude]

I would like to agree, but where is that power coming from? you dropped over 20% on your test times. Which is huge. I would think that you are making at least 35% more power...soo that little bit of propane is actually doing quite a lot.

Plus with the addition of the turbo...what kind of power gains do you figure overall? 60%-80% ???

I love it, don't get me wrong...It already has me thinking about my 3B-t buggy project

Wayne, could you check on the box the PI came in, it should have a CFM rating on it.

thanks

 

[crushers]

i have no idea what kind of power gains i am getting. later today i am going to disconect the turbo boost tube and do the 0-100 km and see how long it takes. i am also booking the truck into Alamo to get them to dyno the old girl and then i will have a much better idea.
cool thing was even under full throttle the EGTs stayed the same or maybe even a bit cooler. i did notice that under full throttle the black smoke was still there...
i know we discussed this before but according to the producers spread sheet i should be seeing about 25%-60% increase in horse power. so with the turbo and the PI i feel i should be in the 250-280 hp range...
deffinately feels like it!!
are the Power smokes not IDI? and these kits are used on those trucks in great number...
it is a variable cfm rate installation. the more boost the more propane is injected...
just curious.
cheers

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

Keep us informed Wayne.



TB

 

[crushers]

Brad:
the system puts out 2cfm at max boost. it can be adjusted up to 3cfm but i have been told for my application what i am running is fine and safe.

HZJ60GUY:
this is the response i got back from the dealer about cracking pre-cups:

Dear Mr. Smith,

Thank you for contacting us. I am glad it finally arrived. I was getting concerned.
Those are some impressive results.
You should not smell "raw" propane at all, you will smell burnt propane something similar to a forklift running. Check for loose fittings, with some soapy water to see if you indeed have a leak. That small tank should last about 1500 -2000 miles of constant use. The amount used is only about 2 cfm at 20 psi, so at 8 psi, you are not even using half the capacity of the calibration. Remember we are using only a small amount of a lean propane/air mixture. Not enough to cause excessive cylinder pressures. We are not trying to run the engine on propane, we are simply using a small amount to complete and.assist in the combustion of the diesel fuel already present. People have gotten into trouble I suppose thinking if a little is good, more is better, which is simply not the case. If you hear rattling/detonation noises you are feeding it too much. This is the warning sign, if you hear it,simply adjust the flow down until it is eliminated.! In the systems previously available, there was no adjustability. The small amount we use, does not cause increased heat, it actually will reduce EGT's by a small amount, (about 50-100 degrees), again, because while we are technically adding a fuel, we are burning it and more of the diesel along with it. Also one of the reasons for the decrease in black smoke, which is simply unburned fuel.



so i hope this helps with the concerns of further stressing the precups. it put my mind to ease anyway.
cheers
Wayne

 

[Radd Cruisers]

We are all fed informatin whether it be right or wrong, I am very intersted in the outcome as it sounds like a great system.

Rob

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

Im interested in your system Wayne"O"

TB

 

[crushers]

We are all fed informatin whether it be right or wrong, I am very intersted in the outcome as it sounds like a great system.

Rob

Afternoon Rob,

I have been around long enough to know that dealers like to offer "rose colored" answers and I can usually decipher if someone is handing me a load of crap. this gent seems on the up and up and has had no problem answering my questions with straight forward information. nothing upsets me more than someone trying to BS me.

I have picked up the dealer status for this product. I feel this should really help out the LJ71s. they really are a great little unit but I find that they are under powered, this might just be the ticket.

I have a couple coming in on the next shipment so I am ordering a kit to install on a 2LT. here is hoping it bring new life into the little girl. if the figures are right then I should be able to go from 87 hp to 108 hp. this will put the LJ71 into the same league as the BJ71 but with quite a bit better fuel mileage.

cheers
Wayne
www.luxuryimports.ca JDM imports
www.crushersrule.com restorations and trip reports
speed kills-live forever- drive a Toyota