Triple-locked vs. non-locking FZJ80 (1 Viewer)

[LINUS]

This is a coomon question, so while I read your post, I scanned to the bottom THB.

You sound like a grounded guy(person) / gender unimportant:

—— E-locker diffs are great, but Harrops are better units now.

— And really, you sound like you’d benefit more by learning the ways to modify the x-case and add a GOOD winch (the mega-winner over any axles) - get a ‘95-‘97 & in excellent drivetrain condition.

Add the winch & winch bumper, after you add slider/runners - ggod ones.

Then worry about pumpkin BS - you’ll find you probably want bigger rubber, so that makes a R&P swap a issue too.
— So when you decide beyond that winch & bumper, and the sliders you got so you didn’t thrash your rockers on a relatively LWB frame- decide on tire size to do R&P’s when you do Harrops or ARB’s (but really Harrops)

Unless you super-cheap “luck into a 3x Locked 80” - most are already owned & beaten.

A core issue of factory e-locked 80’s is the weak RH side RR axle shaft, if you move beyond 315’s/34.5” rubber - it is a very real issue.

I love creampuffs w/ open diffs - they are the last of the raw 80’s you get a solid platform you do your own thing to, without having to fix mods from some wildcat previous owner.

E-locker 80’s are over-hyped nowdays unless a PO can show serious provenance & stuff like a HG job already done, yadda yadda.

Beyond that, a ‘95+ w/ a winch will do a crapton of stuff - then worry about a RR diff mod, and maybe a FR if you’re doing R&P’s.

The trans case function is the big stuff to master - search ‘pin-7 mod’ - super flex esp if you add the CDL switch most don’t come with.

 

[Cruzerman]

Going wheeling means different things to different people. For me, lockers are essential to the type of trails I run. But my rigs are not daily drivers.

Now back to your situation. This is going to be a daily driver with some offroad use. I would say that lockers are not important to you. I know some people do, but I can't imagine having my daily driver non-operational by running trails that require lockers. JMHO.

 

[greentruck]

SNIP

A core issue of factory e-locked 80’s is the weak RH side RR axle shaft, if you move beyond 315’s/34.5” rubber - it is a very real issue.

SNIP

Thanks for these important notes. People want to assume that once that box is checked, all is good in this department. In fact, these are deep waters. Those who feel they won't leave home without lockers tend to be the same folks who will also be adding lift and tires, which tend to cause the reliability issues LINUS observes are common enough to be points of contention - and potentially great expense. If you need all that fine, otherwise it's more a matter if you throw enough money at the problem, you can get down any trail, but maybe not able to keep everything shiny and new in doing so. If you can balance the increased utility against the potential for decreased reliability, then that's good but go easy on the skinny pedal for best results.

When are lockers handiest? When you can't keep more than 2 wheels on the trail at the same time. I'll admit that most of my wheeling involves keeping most of my tires on the ground as close to 100% of the time as possible. Also consider you don't get much traction from air, which might be why you need lockers. If I really need to scratch that itch for some reason on a particular trail, there's the winch.

Then again, maybe I should rethink my strategy. If the 89% or so of 80s that don't have lockers are so incapable of meeting the need, maybe we should just shine 'em up and park 'em at the mall for show and tell?

Then again, in a half century of wheelin' I've never been stopped by the thought that I'd better not because I'm locker-less. Now, the thought of roll-overs, long winching episodes, body damage, and drowned out truck in the river...yeah, those have all stopped me a time or two. The stuff that lockers tends to solve is usually something a different line will solve....not always, but often enough.

Before all of us without lockers head to the mall because we know our limits, it's useful to think that just about any trail that is out there was made originally by the passage of many non-locker-bearing vehicles. Somehow all those folks made it through - and returned to get to the mall. YMMV

 

[ChaseTruck]

We've had that 'are lockers really necessary' debate several times here, with the same characters always chiming in that they've never needed a locking differential in centuries worth of 'wheeling. Actually, that only states that they've never been to places where a locker is needed. In my mind, that doesn't de-value the 'wheeling experience at all. Some of my favorite trails don't require a locker, and yet I've been back countless times (the do require at least AWD in the 80, though; I tried 2WD in the K5 once, and that didn't work...). Others I could drive with open diffs, but clicking just the rear locker in some spots makes it easier - on the vehicle as well as on the trail, as has also been pointed out above; e.g. there won't be any inadvertent wheel spins to kick out rocks from under the truck. Keeping the chosen line is often easier, too. And I've been to places where I couldn't make it despite being locked all around; most of those places don't give a lot of line choice, either. Let's also keep in mind that trails change, with time, as well. Pritchett Canyon in Moab was a dirt road at some point in time...

It is about enjoying 'wheeling, and I find I can do that easily without ever touching the locker buttons. But sometimes I get the urge to go crawling on rocky trails, where the rear locker is on pretty much by default, I'm toggling the front almost constantly, and I'm also having fun.

The way I look at it is that you don't need lockers - until you do. I know, not very helpful; that's just my view. All our trail vehicles (the GX doesn't count) are locked, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Best advice above is to get the newest, lowest mileage 80, and then when you feel you've outgrown dirt roads and easier trails, perhaps add a lunchbox locker to the rear. 80s really do a great job at getting the power to the ground, and that's what counts in the first place; the locker adds extra capability that might come in handy at some point.

 

[haulin auss]

Owner of a locked 80 here. Like many before me have said, I like that my lockers are there but the 80 gets me through most terrain with just some good ol' left-foot braking. I've only really needed the rear a dozen or so times and the front a few times, all of those times a winch would have been fine (just more work ). I've used my winch a few dozen times... but never for myself

 

[JBraun29]

I'm brand new here, and a LC novice, but my experience may be relevant. I just picked up my first 80 and bounced back and forth on this for the two years I spent shopping. For about the first year I refused to look at a truck with no lockers. Seemed like it defeated the purpose of owning a LC. After looking at a bunch of them, I realized that the triple locked trucks were either beat to death (which I celebrate), or pristine and priced out of my range.

In the end I wound up buying a very clean '96 with 250k on the clock and no lockers. It was the quintessential poser rig. 3" lift, snorkel and 35s, an ARB front bumper featuring a harbor freight winch, fitted with a sweet "TEQ" logo sticker. The controller wasn't even connected.

The previous owner was really nice guy and unapologetic about his reasons for owning the truck, i.e., it looks cool as s***. I paid a little over what it was probably worth, but it was too nice to pass up.

Fast forward to now. It's in pieces in my garage and will soon be triple locked. It all started a few miles into the drive home when I realized it badly needed to be regeared. After spending a grand on 4.88s, another $800 on a compressor kit, a few bucks on a diff breather, plus bearings and gaskets, I realized that I didn't want to spend that much time under the truck and still have no lockers. I coughed up the extra $1600 or so and bought the lockers so I could do it all at once. If anything it reinforced the advice I'm seeing here. I probably would have gone through all of this whether the truck had OEM lockers or not.

 

[LandLocked93]

Find the cleanest one you can find with the best records if possible. I'd stay 93 plus if possible.
..lockers aren't only about rock crawling.
I got stuck turning around in a ditch with wet grass, a little mud and a super flexxy 80 series on 35's. spinning tires.... Locked in and walked right out.

I've been amazed at the strange times just like that where I've had to engage them, plus the times where I wouldn't be going forward w/o the lockers on the first attempt at the line and could be facing the dreaded "second try" at the obstacle. lol It's arguable that lockers take the fun out of off roading. Seems the older one gets, the less arguable one finds it. lol

And a winch is an off road necessity regardless. But it's hard to trade flipping a button for the actual act of winching even once. I admittedly pay up front for the priviledge, said the locked rig owner from the top of the hill to the unlocked guy still at the bottom with a few quid in his muddy, clay-caked brick britches.
Even so, that doesn't appear to be the OP's situation.
As a daily driver, I'm simply suggesting an unlocked 1FZJ may not be the most efficient means by which to facilitate the OP's stated intended use.

I must add tho that if 80 in particular is the one option, then the depth and breadth of insight and knowledge shared just in this thread could only be found on MUD.

 

[mudgudgeon]

it's useful to think that just about any trail that is out there was made originally by the passage of many non-locker-bearing vehicles. Somehow all those folks made it through - and returned to get to the mall. YMMV

It's also useful to remember that trails change.

Most of the places I like to go tend to be old forestry roads that were originally pushed through with dozers for quick, short term access for getting logging trucks into logging coups (logging trucks that are all fitted with lockers by the way), these trails are generally roughly built from the outset, and are either still managed by forestry (which means they don't get maintained unless required for logging access) or have become national parks (also unmaintained, unless required for access to facilities, or for safety).
On trails that have had next to zero maintenance over the last 20, 30, 40 years, erosion takes it's toll, as does use by boof heads mistreating trails in the wet, or tearing them up unecessarily in unlocked rigs, or on some, use by trucks with big 37+" tires who are "going to drive it no matter what it takes".

There's places I've been where a forestry road is mostly passable in 2wd, then there'll be a steep little pinch that's eroded or rutted or loose rocks that locked mean you get past without flogging your truck and with minimal wear and tear on the trail.
I can think of one example where one 150 yard section of track would have been impassable without lockers, or would have needed a tricky winch assist with a couple of resets on steep terrain that brings a whole other set of hazards. That 150 yard section would have required a 30km reroute to get past.
I've also used lockers to walk through 6' of washout that you'd have to bounce an unlocked rig through hard.
My boy got us stuck in a creek bed recently that looked firm to drive through, but the truck sunk, and inexperience meant he was stuck before he had time to stomp it and bump through. That scenario, we probably could have driven out of with lockers.


Anyway, they certainly have their place if you can justify the cost.

 

[FJBen]

I've been amazed at the strange times just like that where I've had to engage them, plus the times where I wouldn't be going forward w/o the lockers on the first attempt at the line and could be facing the dreaded "second try" at the obstacle. lol It's arguable that lockers take the fun out of off roading. Seems the older one gets, the less arguable one finds it. lol

And a winch is an off road necessity regardless. But it's hard to trade flipping a button for the actual act of winching even once. I admittedly pay up front for the priviledge, said the locked rig owner from the top of the hill to the unlocked guy still at the bottom with a few quid in his muddy, clay-caked brick britches.
Even so, that doesn't appear to be the OP's situation.
As a daily driver, I'm simply suggesting an unlocked 1FZJ may not be the most efficient means by which to facilitate the OP's stated intended use.

I must add tho that if 80 in particular is the one option, then the depth and breadth of insight and knowledge shared just in this thread could only be found on MUD.

Agreed, nothing even remotely efficient about Daily Driving an 80 series unless your commute looks like this:

my old 80 that I daily drove...



Agreed that a winch will get you out of stuff lockers won't. It's just not as easy. On the flip side I've never had to use a winch on myself wheeling, but if you don't have lockers, a winch is an excellent step towards saving yourself if alone, or someone else.

 

[greentruck]

It's also useful to remember that trails change.

SNIP


Anyway, they certainly have their place if you can justify the cost.

Couldn't agree more. Take the Holy Cross City trail near Minturn. First time up it I got to the creek crossing. That was in my bone stock FJ55 in 1977 running on those mighty 28" M&S that those old Land Cruisers rolled off the showroom floor on.

Haven't been that close since, but haven't been back in a Land Cruiser yet either. From what I hear, lockers would be very handy up that far now, but the trail below is pretty rough now that it's had decades of rigs with big tires clawing over those rocks. My 55 wouldn't make it that far now. Yet to try the 80 there.

Or take Poughkeepsie Gulch down near Silverton. often mentioned as off-limits in local rental Jeep contracts. Have I bothered? Nope, it's infamous, well-marked, and there's other ways to get where I'm going there. There's a great little video of a trail run where a locked 80 climbs the big steps posted here last night. The climb is graceful enough, thanks to the lockers, but bang, bang, banging on the rocks! Ouch, must have lots of armor on. I gotta get home to IL, that fellow only had to make it home to Utah, IIRC, but me...I'll admit to being leery of that much fun when I have an alternative. The truck is for getting us there since my hobby is no longer fixing stuff if at all possible.

My only experience with locker-equipped vehicles tends to drive my view of them, driving John Deer 5020s in the Indiana river bottoms on my uncle and aunt's farm. True, these were 2WD, but the driven end had huge duals. I was told if things got sticky to engage the locker (via a foot pedal IIRC). Maybe it was my limited driving skills at the time, but that pedal never made a difference other than to get both sides turning at the same speed. I was generally good and stuck when that happened and would need to wait until someone missed me, then catch grief over why the tilling wasn't done yet. I learned the best thing to do was to drive to not get stuck in the first place. I'm not at all worried about needing an alternative line if my first one doesn't work, it's just how you drive if you don't want to risk that long walk for help. Others prefer a hardware solution, to each their own, they are more useful running trails in an 80 than stuck in the mud in 5020 as these are somewhat different applications.

No one is dissing lockers here. I just get a little skeptical of the way some folks insist they couldn't leave their driveway without them because the trails they drive are just that tough. Or that folks who wheel without them have no clue about what they can be be useful for. We somehow manage or there'd be a bunch of nice trucks stuck on trails out there.

 

[Lumpskie]

I got stuck turning around in a ditch with wet grass, a little mud and a super flexxy 80 series on 35's. spinning tires.... Locked in and walked right out.

This happened to me with my wife an infant son in the car. I pulled off the road to take a picture of a sunset. The scrub obscured a really deep ditch on the side of the road. It was so deep that I felt the high side of the suspension unload a bit. I tried to crawl out with no lockers... no joy. Just rear... no good. Front and rear engaged, slowly crawled right now without spinning tires and making things work. ARB for the win.