84 fj60
can a 3spd t/case be swapped in place of a 4spd t/case?
is there an advantage to the three spd case?
can a 3spd t/case be swapped in place of a 4spd t/case?
is there an advantage to the three spd case?
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The three speed case will lower your crawl ratio, because it has lower gears to compensate for the 3 speeds higher first gear. Im no 60 expert or 40 for that matter, but i know you can swap cases in the 40's, you will need a spacer to replace the PTO gear and you will need a nose cone with manual shift if the 3 speed was vacuum shift , as well as a new gear for the xfer case.
Im sure i will get corrected if im wrong.
Im sure i will get corrected if im wrong.
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Are you wondering about putting in a 3 sp case in lieu of the stock split case? I don't believe it will bolt up behind the stock tranny, but you could use the 3 spd tranny or the older 4 speed, or use an adapter and put it behind a SM420 or 465.
Question is though, why? The 3 speed case is considerably weaker than the stock split case. I don't see any benifits.
Question is though, why? The 3 speed case is considerably weaker than the stock split case. I don't see any benifits.
Wouldn't waste the time for a zero gain IMHO... As mentioned a 1 piece 3 speed case will not bolt to a late model transmission, the output shaft is a 19spl and there is no 19 spline 1 peice input. Also as mentioned, the Split-case is ALOT better than the 1 piece, both in strength, durability and shifting/noise. Now, if you were thinking of an Orion... that would be worth it 
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thanx guys 
did realy know if it was feasable
just need to get lower crawling even still after adding 4.88's
got a chevy 4x4 sitting out back of work that has a 4spd in it.
i would figure prolly one of the two sm... series trans
does that sound like one of many options to go with?
thanx for the input...
wheeled with treerootCO this last weekend and loved to watch his orion work.
just to much $$$ for me at this time....
did realy know if it was feasable
just need to get lower crawling even still after adding 4.88's
got a chevy 4x4 sitting out back of work that has a 4spd in it.
i would figure prolly one of the two sm... series trans
does that sound like one of many options to go with?
thanx for the input...
wheeled with treerootCO this last weekend and loved to watch his orion work.
just to much $$$ for me at this time....
Told ya i didnt know squat.
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I have kicked around the idea of putting in an SM465 A LOT. I've pretty much been talked out of it for one reason or another
here is a couple of treads I started on the subject:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=48903&highlight=sm465
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=7113&highlight=sm465
I myself am going to go with a 203 Doubler. It uses the stock tranny and stock t/case and gives an additional 2:1 low range.
I have the rear adapter already, and saving cash for the front one. Jerry Nichols out of Co Spngs makes them for advanced adapters. Not THE best option out there, but should get me where I want to go for a while.
here is a couple of treads I started on the subject:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=48903&highlight=sm465
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=7113&highlight=sm465
I myself am going to go with a 203 Doubler. It uses the stock tranny and stock t/case and gives an additional 2:1 low range.
I have the rear adapter already, and saving cash for the front one. Jerry Nichols out of Co Spngs makes them for advanced adapters. Not THE best option out there, but should get me where I want to go for a while.
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- #8
thanx for the info mark,
can you tell me more info on the 203? i take it,thats a np203?
what do they come out of?
understanding that you only need a adapter plate for them, plus maybe some shifter parts?
thanx for the input....
can you tell me more info on the 203? i take it,thats a np203?
what do they come out of?
understanding that you only need a adapter plate for them, plus maybe some shifter parts?
thanx for the input....
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Yes, it uses the NP203, but only the front gear reduction box portion. What you need is a 10 spline NP203. I'm not certain when exactly these were available.
You need an adapter between the tranny and 203, then one from the 203 to t/case.
And other than that it is just shifter linkage. I believe the 2 adapters cost $1100, but I imagine you could save on shipping. Tornadoalleycruiser posted on a thread showing how he did his linkage. Do a search and see what you come up with.
The marlin toybox is way more bling. Only problem with that is that it is $1700 plus you have to rebuild the tranny with a new output shaft. But you can get a 4.7:1 reduction in addition to your current low range.
The 203 box will give you about 60:1 with stock gearing. With the 4.88's you will be closer to 100:1 (if I did my math right???). That is pretty good for a wagon. If you ever upgrade to an H55 it will still bolt up.
You need an adapter between the tranny and 203, then one from the 203 to t/case.
And other than that it is just shifter linkage. I believe the 2 adapters cost $1100, but I imagine you could save on shipping. Tornadoalleycruiser posted on a thread showing how he did his linkage. Do a search and see what you come up with.
The marlin toybox is way more bling. Only problem with that is that it is $1700 plus you have to rebuild the tranny with a new output shaft. But you can get a 4.7:1 reduction in addition to your current low range.
The 203 box will give you about 60:1 with stock gearing. With the 4.88's you will be closer to 100:1 (if I did my math right???). That is pretty good for a wagon. If you ever upgrade to an H55 it will still bolt up.
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- #10
thanx again mark...
man thats alot of cash
i think i'll stick with what i got, i have no extra $$$ for this mod
maybe when publisher clearing house knocks on my door.
heck, i'll buy some for everyone!!!
man thats alot of cash
i think i'll stick with what i got, i have no extra $$$ for this mod
maybe when publisher clearing house knocks on my door.
heck, i'll buy some for everyone!!!
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I hear you man. I've got one of the adapters right now. Waiting on some cash to buy the other...
I'm thinking I'm going to have to plunk down some cash to go with 4.88's just so I can make it through the hills out there. Out here it's so flat that gears dont matter.
I'm thinking I'm going to have to plunk down some cash to go with 4.88's just so I can make it through the hills out there. Out here it's so flat that gears dont matter.
Calling Kurt W...
Looking into an Orion in my '84 60 with 5.7 Vortec & 4L60E: you said above (quite a while ago) "Now, if you were thinking of an Orion... that would be worth it". Would the Orion be superior to the split-case in strength, durability and shifting/noise?
Talking with Advance, it appears that I can press out the 19-spline spud shaft in their adapter & press in a 10 or 16-spline one ($239!). Would you have any preference between the two?
And do you have/have access to a 1-piece t-case/parts for the tail housing & shafts? That's all the Orion allegedly uses.
Looking into an Orion in my '84 60 with 5.7 Vortec & 4L60E: you said above (quite a while ago) "Now, if you were thinking of an Orion... that would be worth it". Would the Orion be superior to the split-case in strength, durability and shifting/noise?
Talking with Advance, it appears that I can press out the 19-spline spud shaft in their adapter & press in a 10 or 16-spline one ($239!). Would you have any preference between the two?
And do you have/have access to a 1-piece t-case/parts for the tail housing & shafts? That's all the Orion allegedly uses.
Tinker said:
I would say yes, the major failure that the OEM 1-piece cases had was splitting the case near the idler. Many have theories one why this happens, I seem to think that worn gears, and bearings allow the gears to "walk" on eachother and thus expand their working distance, and in a brittle case, it cracks. The new Orion not only will include new gears and bearings, thus elimintating alot of the typically worn components, but also a much stronger and beefed up cast than the original. I had a chance to look at the case as it was developed here in SLC, I was more than impressed by its design...
Tinker said:
16 spline, really no difference, but the 16 spline will have a marginal strength increase over the 10 spline at the input gear.
But why do you need to press anything? AA has kits that mate the 4L60E (2 or 4wd applications) to the 3spd, 4spd, or Split, so there should be no need to customize a kit? Remember that all of those adapters are an additional 6.75", might not be a huge issue in an FJ60.
Tinker said:
I should have most of that stuff... the last few Orions that we sold kindve cleanes us out on some of those parts, but I most likely have everything. There have been rumors of a "Super Orion" coming out that is complete, no donor parts needed. I'll ask around...
Kurt -
I already have the AA adapter between my 4L60E & the split-case. AA says the Orion HD won't be out before next spring (other projects took priority), so I'm guessing a year or two, maybe never. So, obviously, you sell the Orion - cool!
I just need to figure out if my tcase is trashed - can't get in 4 low & I've got a high-speed vibration I haven't been able to isolate. This after my now ex-employee was doing neutral drops until he blew the spiders & side gears & at least 1 sprag in the tranny.
I already have the AA adapter between my 4L60E & the split-case. AA says the Orion HD won't be out before next spring (other projects took priority), so I'm guessing a year or two, maybe never. So, obviously, you sell the Orion - cool!
I just need to figure out if my tcase is trashed - can't get in 4 low & I've got a high-speed vibration I haven't been able to isolate. This after my now ex-employee was doing neutral drops until he blew the spiders & side gears & at least 1 sprag in the tranny.
Tinker said:
Did AA say it would bolt to an Orion? The split case has a different bolt pattern than the one-piece cases (such as an Orion). It "may" be possilbe to use a early H42 rear bearing retainer on the back of your adapter, and then get a 16 spline stub, not sure?
Kurt -
AA said all I had to do was change the spud shaft in the adapter, since that's what couples to the tcase. They didn't say anything about the bolt pattern. But how often do you believe the guy who had phone duty that afternoon. What I really need is the name of a tcase guru there.
On a different note, I took the advice on this thread & pulled the boot off & looked around, found that the lever wasn't actuating the H-L shaft, & got it to move with my Chan-L-Locks. Then I was able to get the tcase into 4low once - rest of the time it just grinds when I push it to the right. Also, the lever moves sideways in the 4High position, although it won't engage low, just neutral by moving the lever to the upper right position.
Not sure if the balls & springs are OK, so that's what I intend to check next. Suppose the high/low one could be jammed. Really hoping my tcase isn't fried.
AA said all I had to do was change the spud shaft in the adapter, since that's what couples to the tcase. They didn't say anything about the bolt pattern. But how often do you believe the guy who had phone duty that afternoon. What I really need is the name of a tcase guru there.
On a different note, I took the advice on this thread & pulled the boot off & looked around, found that the lever wasn't actuating the H-L shaft, & got it to move with my Chan-L-Locks. Then I was able to get the tcase into 4low once - rest of the time it just grinds when I push it to the right. Also, the lever moves sideways in the 4High position, although it won't engage low, just neutral by moving the lever to the upper right position.
Not sure if the balls & springs are OK, so that's what I intend to check next. Suppose the high/low one could be jammed. Really hoping my tcase isn't fried.
