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Training to advance: Who should pay?

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by T Y L E R, Aug 12, 2005.

  1. T Y L E R

    T Y L E R

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    I'm interested to collect feedback here. I'd like to know how other jobs work in regards to advancement via training, and who picks up the tab. Our workplace just had a competition to choose six individuals to advance to the next level. The successful six, myself included, will receive six months of training. This will include didactic, rounds in ER, and OR, and our consolidation on the streets. Each medic advancing will cost the Municipality $50,000. Part of this cost is for back filling our positions while we are off the cars and in training. We will be continuing to make full time pay based on our 12 hr positions, though we will be in class/hospital on nine hour rotations.

    Each of us, upon graduation and certification with Base Hospital will REMAIN at our old pay scale for 42 months. We basically enter into a contract to pay the municipality back half of the bill .. or approximately $25K.

    I'd like to hear how other places handle this type of thing. When you guys step up and try and advance your career, does your company slap you with half the bill? What losses do you encounter? Lost time? Paying for professional development yourself? ???


    I think the big factor in this situation is that the company needs to pay a full time medic to replace each of us while we train. If we could train 'while' functioning in our full time slot, then it would probably be 100% paid.




    TY
     
  2. shocker

    shocker

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    That seems kinda strange to me. Most places I've known pay the training bill in full, whether it be seminars, college courses, whatever....
     
  3. Gumby

    Gumby Supamod Staff Member s-Moderator

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    Teachers move up on a pay scale based on education, but generally we pay for it up front.

    They are talking about a new program where the district will pay for the classes, but then take the difference on the pay scale back until the money is paid back.


    As a mechanic I was sent to training by the shop, but it didn't mean more money on a pay scale.
     
  4. krzyabncanuck

    krzyabncanuck USFS HOTSHOT GOLD Star

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    Wow man, My company pays for all of my stuff and gives me per diem , plus highly encourages me to futher myself.

    But then again I am talking about Uncle Sam and the Army.

    Sorry man. But on another note, my old lady and most of the other staff that she worked with just got laid off and they are making them pay back all of their education allowance they spent. Up to 5000.00 dollars.

    That sucks.
     
  5. beno

    beno 23424-23216 Moderator GOLD Star

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    My brother was sent full time to Sloan School of Management at MIT by his employer for free. He did the MBA full time in 1.5 years and was then given a raise and a promotion afterwards.

    Now he flies on the corporate jet. :mad:

    ****er.
     
  6. T Y L E R

    T Y L E R

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    I can relate to the 'idea' of having to pay back an education allowance. If I step down from this next level, or do not recertify, or move I will be bound by the contract in which I entered and will still have to cough up the $25K.


    TY
     
  7. krzyabncanuck

    krzyabncanuck USFS HOTSHOT GOLD Star

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    I could see paying back if you quit, or got fired, but being laid off is a bit different, to me anyway.
     
  8. crholliday

    crholliday Frisbeetarianist

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    My company will pay 100% of any work related training. They will also send me back to school for anything that will improve my value to them (basically anything related to business, finance or IT).

    C.
     
  9. IDave

    IDave

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    I guess it depends on who stands to gain from your education. If you end up with a marketable skill, that you could take anywhere for a higher salary, I can see your being asked to invest, at least partly. If it is primarily your employer who stands to gain, higher skilled worker who can bring in more profit or efficiency, or provide a required skill niche, then they should swallow the cost.

    As an employer, I ALWAYS footed the bill for educating my employees, because what I sent them for (at least theoretically) improved my bottom line or the service I could provide.
     
  10. mabrodis

    mabrodis

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    TY, to me that sounds like a bunch of crap. It sounds like it could be good training (if you are interested in it), but making you pay some of the bill doesn't seem quite right. They are pulling you out of work for 6-months for training, but you are still doing something for them, I'm guessing this training isn't brochures and tea-parties, it's probably just like normal work but you might be assisting/learning instead of solely responsible.

    It doesn't sound that great to me, I'd relay the message/opinion that if you were good enough to be on of the 'chosen few' then you shouldn't get cornered into working for 3-1/2 years after this training before you see ANY benefit of it.

    3-1/2 years is a long time, would make more sense to me if like 6 months or maybe a year, but anything beyond a year is way out there time-wise for most people.

    I think a better idea would be to have the employeer pay all the bill if you came out of the training and were certified/passed or whatever. But if you went through the training and didn't, then you would owe back some amount, etc.

    I know most employeers will pay education expenses but only if you receive a 'B' or higher in a college course, if you don't, then they won't pay the bill, that type of arrangement would seem to make sense here, especially if it's tough training, if you can make it through the training and be certified, then you're good enough for them to pay more I'd say.

    Good Luck.
     
  11. NorCalDoug

    NorCalDoug problems solved daily...

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    Every place I have worked as an EMPLOYEE (as opposed to a contractor/temp), training has been covered by the employer. No payback has ever been required.

    My current employer requires additional training throughout the year. In fact, if I do not attend training courses, my annual review is impacted negatively. Basically a "improve or we won't give you a raise" mentality. IMO, it's a part of doing business and it's a smart practice to keep the staff current on their skills.
     
  12. cruiserman

    cruiserman

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    Sounds like crap to me. Folks here take classes on their own time and get reimbursed for costs up to a certain dollar amount assuming grades are up to snuff. There is also on the job training that is done during work time.
     
  13. GeoRoss

    GeoRoss

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    IIRC NIH/NSF funded graduate programs in theory require 'payback' if you drop out of the program or don't continue on in the field.
     
  14. concretejungle

    concretejungle SILVER Star

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    That sounds strange to me as well. Every place i've ever worked paid for advancement training and once completed bumped you up a pay scale.
     
  15. Tooth Fairy

    Tooth Fairy

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    In the lab business training is usually paid for by the lab, but, it's not a certain increase in pay. Usually none at all.
     
  16. Tooth Fairy

    Tooth Fairy

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    In the fire service (here in ID anyway) we get the training paid for and our time there as well. Does not result in an increase in pay.
     
  17. Cruisin'Carolina

    Cruisin'Carolina

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    I'm not sure what to think. Most of my training has been paid, but I really didn't get the freedom just to train for long periods of time. I basically had to go to school full time and work full time. So they paid, I did all of the work and studying, and am now hopefully going to reap some benefits.

    Sounds like your deal is different though. Much more expensive training, for a lot longer, and you are not working your regular shifts in addition to...

    Look at it this way. You can quit your job, eek by on Starbuck's wages, and pay for the schooling yourself and then get a raise when you go back.

    Or keep showing up everyday like you would anyway for 42 months, have it a little easier, and then get a raise...

    (In other words it is different, but still not a bad deal....all any of us can ask for is an opportunity......+ there are about 10 guys lined up behind you that would kill for the deal, so no worries.)

    :beer: :beer:
     
  18. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    I just typed a huge reply and accidentally deleted it :doh: . Basically I had the exact same scenario, with almost the same conditions and took it. I will gather my energy to rewrite that reply again, later :) .
     
  19. srafj40

    srafj40

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    T:

    Buddy of mine went from Firefighter to Para. District paid for him at the U of A. He had to switch shifts and take vacation to complete needed hours. Jumped from US $36K + OT... to $49K + OT.

    Where as myself in education, had to pay my own bill to get a MA ED Leadership, got no raise (long story). Good news is my district pays for the next step, a PHD if I get an Admin spot. :bounce:
     
  20. T Y L E R

    T Y L E R

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    I've been thinking of contacting you (Firetruck41) .. I'll probably bounce stuff off of you once I'm in the program. :beer:


    BTW, sometimes a ctrl-Z will undo a delete, or going back some pages in a browser. Appreciate the reply though if you get to it later ..



    :cheers:

    --------------


    Basically, the last group of guys trained went thru 7 years ago. The city has dragged it's fawkin feet and refused to put another training session together. All about the bottom $$. Pathetic !!!! Our city has lost 50% of our advanced medics since, and this training session will only BACKFILL our ranks. So we'll only be back to our 1998 numbers.

    We had a union meeting, and were told by our own union rep that if we did not vote YES for the agreement to pay back 50% of the bill, city council would never pass it, and we would probably NEVER see ACP training again! We signed yes almost unanimously, but I bet more than a few guys felt a little sick afterward .. like we had sold ourselves down the river.

    If the City ever knew that this sort of 'blackmail' had taken place behind the scenes, medics being held ransom for they're citys proper coverage. How the fawk can you threaten men and women into grasping hold of $25 worth of training, for fear they NEVER get the chance again to reach that level in their career? Where do the citizens come in? Why isn't their safety of any real importance??

    I know s***e about politics, and though I am pretty pleased with the way the City is running our service, something about this deal leaves me a little ashamed. Ashamed that our fine City really doesn't 'care' about it's citizens .. what it cares about is how it can bleed the very medics that will provide the care to those men women and children so as to share in the cost of their training.


    Starting to sound a bit circular .. but does this make any sense to anyone??



    /rant



    TY