Trailers and controllers and wirings and stuffs... (1 Viewer)

[Blomdala]

Quick verification question: since I'll be using the DC/DC converter as a 12v power supply, I need an insolated unit, correct? That would provide a completely clean 12v supply whereas the non-isolated, common-ground unit would...not? I've been reading on the subject, and it seems that most people are using these to charge a 12v separate/house battery, in which case they're using the isolated units; if I just replace the battery with my 12v bus block, then it seems like the isolated unit is still the correct application, yes?

Most the converters have + and - input and out put. So you’re covered there. I’m using a generic 30a DCDC converter from 24->12 and have had no issues. I don’t tow much anymore but I like to have the ability if something comes up.

 

[Sundowner]

I got a 30A converter ordered; should be here Sunday. I don't have any wire in stock, though, so I'll need to shop for that as well; I could possibly reuse the pulls that were installed for the PO's amp, but I think they'll be too large.

 

[svsisu]

I got a 30A converter ordered; should be here Sunday. I don't have any wire in stock, though, so I'll need to shop for that as well; I could possibly reuse the pulls that were installed for the PO's amp, but I think they'll be too large.

You can find quality cable and wire, terminals, breakers etc here:

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[Sundowner]

That's a good resource; thank you. I had planned to check marine supply sites because I've had good luck with those components in the past. I've never understood why auto manufacturers use such high-quality components but always seem to buy the cheapest, suckiest wire imaginable. Makes no sense...

 

[Sundowner]

Converter showed up today...in damaged packaging, having been cut open and shoved back into the interior box, and then tossed around inside someone's car for a bit. Back it goes, and we'll try again...

 

[Sundowner]

Well, it took three tries and two returns, but I finally got an undamaged converter; the first two were identical in their rough handling, except that the second one was broken as well. Now to order some wire and other stuffs, and see if I can come up with some quality relays and something to hold them in; I kind of want to go raid a junkyard and find a dead Toyota truck, but there seems to be no such thing outside of the deserts of Namibia.

Also, quick question on wire sizing: according to the manual for the converter, at a 5m length I should have a minimum gauge of 10mm (cross section) on the input side, and something somewhat larger than that on the output side. Is this correct? That's something like AWG 7 and 5, yes? So I would probably just upsize to AWG 6 and 4, respectively, connect the output to a hopefully-surplus fuse/relay block, and go from there?

 

[jblueridge]

where will you mount the converter, front or rear? The 24V wire can be thinner.
If you use 6 gauge all around you should be fine. awg 6 = 13.3 mm2 = 4.1 mm diam which is good for more than 7 meters at 30 amps and 12V.

 

[Rigster]

Were you actually able to source a 24v converter? As an aside, when I owned the 24v cruisers, I always just used a 12v one, and put 24v bulbs in the trailer. From a wiring aspect, it was fine but whatever wizardry they concocted for the internals, they would need replacing every 2-3yrs. Not a big deal to me when I could not find a 24v one. Internet was just in its infancy back then as well.

Best of luck on the install!

 

[Sundowner]

where will you mount the converter, front or rear? The 24V wire can be thinner.

Rear, or kind of centrally. I had thoughts of burying it in the depths of the center console, but it may be too large for that. The location is ideal because it would let me use the storage compartment on the left side of the rear seat for a 12v block, but the overall size of the converter is pretty large.

If you use 6 gauge all around you should be fine. awg 6 = 13.3 mm2 = 4.1 mm diam which is good for more than 7 meters at 30 amps and 12V.

I have an existing pull of something in the 6 range that was used for an amp; I disconnected all of the wiring and got rid of the amp and box because it made the entire rear cargo area useless, but the wires are still there...and there's a keyed ignition pull along with them. I thought about salvaging the cable, redoing the terminals, and then pulling a better ground. That would minimize my cost.

Were you actually able to source a 24v converter? As an aside, when I owned the 24v cruisers, I always just used a 12v one, and put 24v bulbs in the trailer. From a wiring aspect, it was fine but whatever wizardry they concocted for the internals, they would need replacing every 2-3yrs. Not a big deal to me when I could not find a 24v one. Internet was just in its infancy back then as well.

Yep, got a Victron 24 to 12, 30A-ish unit.

Rebulbing the trailer would work if I wasn't going to use it behind my truck as well. And in the most immediate example, it'll be a rental trailer anyway.

Best of luck on the install!

Thank you, because I'll need it.

Question: does anyone know of a Toyota fuse block that has space for the four relays that I'll need? I might as well get them and some 12v fuses on the same mounting; that would save complexity later on.

 

[Guyute]

Keep us posted. I’m right behind you on a similar project.

 

[jblueridge]

Not sure about a fuse box with relay sockets.... is there a wreckers yard near you that allows you to walk around window shopping?

I had to re-wire my Pyle converter so that it got no power input when the ignition is Off.
Just sitting there, with no accessories pulling 12V, the converter used enough power to pull my batteries down in 1 week.
Now the 24V input power is relay-controlled by the ignition.

 

[Sundowner]

Not sure about a fuse box with relay sockets.... is there a wreckers yard near you that allows you to walk around window shopping?

I'm not sure. Having just moved, I don't know all of the resources around here...but I'm thinking that there has to be something like that.

I had to re-wire my Pyle converter so that it got no power input when the ignition is Off.
Just sitting there, with no accessories pulling 12V, the converter used enough power to pull my batteries down in 1 week.
Now the 24V input power is relay-controlled by the ignition.

Looking at the Victron manual, it seems to have that kind of feature... I just have to figure out how to access it. Looks like it needs a jumper installed in a dedicated port; I'm pretty sure that piece is included. I think that all I need to do is check the keyed ignition wire for the non-existent amp and then start pulling all the rest of the additional wiring back out, and then start in on the rest.

Finally got a crimping tool ordered; I'll check the power cable size today and order some new terminals at the very least. Hopefully the cable itself can be reused for one side or the other; it's already routed and sized for 12v, so cutting it down and finding a central place for the converter should be possible.

 

[jblueridge]

Sounds like a plan.
Good crimping tool makes many things possible.

 

[Sundowner]

Looks like the junkyards around my area might not be a great resource; from what I'm hearing, selection is pretty low and electronic components are usually stripped out...so I'm thinking it might be easier to just order the relay block that I need and be done with it. I know Hella makes one, but I'm having trouble finding the 87426 mini relays anywhere that can get them to me quickly. Is there a Bosch or Denso interchange for them? I can't seem to find that chart, either. Maybe this isn't my day to look things up...

Edit: I couldn't come up with anyone that could ship the Hella relays anytime soon, and the junkyards don't seem to carry anything that's 24v...so I ordered some Bosch 0332209204 relays, and hopefully they'll work. I think the only difference is that they have a diode instead of a resistor.

 

[jblueridge]

Here’s a block to hold 4 relays.
block

 

[Sundowner]

Here’s a block to hold 4 relays.
block

Same one I just ordered; thank you!

Wiring pulls are a mess; I'll get a picture here in a bit.

 

[Sundowner]

As promised...

Pictured: The Mess

The good news is that most of the extra wiring is easy to trace and remove; the RCAs go to a head unit that needs to be ditched, and the speaker wires probably don't go any further than the dash. Also, the power cable and ground are 4AWG, so that's good. The bad news is that it's...not the best cable. I mean, it'll work, but it's not great...so I can just re-use it for now. The confusing part is that it comes in on the driver's side...and the batteries are on the passenger side...

 

[Guyute]

Here’s a block to hold 4 relays.
block

Bought the same block as well. Takes mini relays. Ended up getting these fir next day delivery then trimmed the brackets off.

HELLA 933332161 24V 10/20A

 

[Sundowner]

For the record: I absolutely hate hack-job wiring. I can't even begin to explain how bad this "professional" effort was. I started chasing wires from the rear to get them loose and found that half of the dash harness had been cut, spliced, taped and zip-tied. There was even a twist-tie around one bundle of extra wiring, wrapped around the factory cigarette lighter. I got most of it cleared out, but I'm still working on ditching the aftermarket additions, all the way up to the annoying alarm. I'll have several pieces of wire to replace, as well; they're not salvageable after whatever these bastards did.

A small sampling of the damage...

I'm pretty sure they broke the blend door attachment when all of this was installed; it's never worked correctly, and now that I've gotten in there I've found that it's pretty rusted...so that's one more thing to repair. I snapped the connector back into place, but this is how I found it:

There's also an issue with some things in the rear, but nothing dire...but I didn't even get close to figuring out my wiring and 12V situation, today. And now I'm going to knock off for the night, have a scotch, and curse silently at ineptitude.

 

[jblueridge]

All that stuff was for a sound system? Cripes!
Do you think the spiral wires were an attempt to shield the music signal like twisted air ethernet wiring?

I bought a label maker when I was doing my US radio wiring.
Now, years later its nice to open things up and see the wires named.