Events/Trails Trail Run 5/22-23 GWT-Cherry to Williams

Pitch

Driving from the 2nd row
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More pics

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Stepmurr

Lookin' fer the end of that old white line
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@Stepmurr I am curious how long that 5 lb propane bottle will run a fire ring? Tom
Sorry, but I'm just a fire ring lurker and don't own one.

@Pitch provided the fire ring on this trip.

The bottle froze up a few times and I was trying to get him to warm it in the ring, but he didn't fall for it :devil:
 

Pitch

Driving from the 2nd row
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Maybe @Pitch can give us some feedback on how long a 5 lb propane bottle will run a fire ring? Thanks.

We ran the Camp Chef Sequoia fire pit at a low to medium flame one night and one morning. I’d guess 4 total hours of run time, and used 90% of the 5# tank. Essentially, the 5’er is good for an overnight only. But, I can run my cooking stove for days on that tank.
 
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A newer, fast-growing fire in the area we traveled through. It is the lightning-caused Rafael fire, currently at 18k acres, having started one June 18th. I was a few miles away yesterday, and the smoke plume got huge in the late afternoon.


I would like your post but there is nothing to like about another wildfire. These dry lighting strikes are playing havoc this year. While campers are causing the fires there are taking resources having personal comb the area around all these fires to be sure they leave the area. The Backbone fire is quite aways away from us but watching the twice daily broadcasts on the fire's status. Bottom line the resources are spread to thin in the state with new fires continuing to be started. Interesting the Leonard Canyon went under the radar and was put out quickly with a bunch of resources. If you aren't local probably haven't even heard of that fire.

Just heard west of I-17 and south of 1-40 need to be ready to evacuate. This includes University Heights, Kachina Village, Forest Highlands and Mountain Del. Sure this is a precaution but still scary.
 
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It’s important to remember that our forests—especially the ponderosa forests, are catching up from more than a century of fire deficit, and that these lightning fires, if they can be managed at not too high severities over large areas, can really improve fire resilience and management going forward.

To that end, this map (as of 26 June) shows how Rafael was basically stopped as it encountered the complex of past fire perimeters in the East Pocket and Upper West Fork zones (in which I know many of us have camped).

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It’s important to remember that our forests—especially the ponderosa forests, are catching up from more than a century of fire deficit, and that these lightning fires, if they can be managed at not too high severities over large areas, can really improve fire resilience and management going forward.

To that end, this map (as of 26 June) shows how Rafael was basically stopped as it encountered the complex of past fire perimeters in the East Pocket and Upper West Fork zones (in which I know many of us have camped).

View attachment 2715180

This is the part of Coconino National Forest I explored the most when I bought my first Land Cruiser back in mid seventies. Back then only remember a area called Rattlesnake burn. Most this other are all newer. Believe it was 1988 when the forestry department realized not ever fire was a bad fire. Just too bad a huge chunk of Yellowstone national park burned that year and they realized more need to be done than just turn it over to mother nature. While the Tender fire in the Blue Ridge area burned quite a few buildings there has been a small upside. Game and Fish relocated big horn sheep from a area where mining trucks were taking a toll on them to our area. The burned area has turned out to be a great habitat for them and they are now thriving. Now if we could just get the forest service and lodging industry to come to an agreement on how the area should be logged would help both parties. Fry Park which is just east of FS Rd 231 is the last place I remember logging going on. Had to be careful those logging truck would run fifty MPH down the forest roads. Also got turned around a few times where when the new road the loggers create took off a FS Rd made original road look like a small trail off the main one. I have a lot of fond memories of that area. 2019 instead going on the Casner Mountian run I went back and explored east of 231. Would like to explore west of 231 just a long round about way to get there from the Blue Ridge area.
 
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This is the part of Coconino National Forest I explored the most when I bought my first Land Cruiser back in mid seventies. Back then only remember a area called Rattlesnake burn. Most this other are all newer. Believe it was 1988 when the forestry department realized not ever fire was a bad fire. Just too bad a huge chunk of Yellowstone national park burned that year and they realized more need to be done than just turn it over to mother nature. While the Tender fire in the Blue Ridge area burned quite a few buildings there has been a small upside. Game and Fish relocated big horn sheep from a area where mining trucks were taking a toll on them to our area. The burned area has turned out to be a great habitat for them and they are now thriving. Now if we could just get the forest service and lodging industry to come to an agreement on how the area should be logged would help both parties. Fry Park which is just east of FS Rd 231 is the last place I remember logging going on. Had to be careful those logging truck would run fifty MPH down the forest roads. Also got turned around a few times where when the new road the loggers create took off a FS Rd made original road look like a small trail off the main one. I have a lot of fond memories of that area. 2019 instead going on the Casner Mountian run I went back and explored east of 231. Would like to explore west of 231 just a long round about way to get there from the Blue Ridge area.

That's great. I spent a fair bit of time out there in the 1980s as a kid.

I'm pretty sure that the rattlesnake burn started near Rattlesnake Mesa and ran east and northeast into Barney Pasture. The Forest Service replanted the burned area where, ironically, there is now a very dense and fire-prone pine plantation today. When that burns someday--and it will eventually burn--it'll burn down entirely, starting all over yet again. The folly.

There's been lots of thinning of smaller trees and prescribed burning along 231 in recent years north of these recent burns and south of Rogers Lake, especially around Mill Park and on the way out to Fry Park. It opens the forest up, grows more grass (tons of elk in there) and makes it resilient to beneficial fires while saving the big trees. A lot of people spent a lot of years hammering out agreements do that work.

The west side of 231 is super interesting. Next time you're up this way look me and we'll cruise and walk some of it. There are some springs out there that've been on my list that would be very interesting to check out.

It'd be fun to stitch together a dirt route down the Mogollon Rim from the East / South Pocket zone to the White Mountains or even Black Range to the east.
 
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Would really to spend a day two in the area. At Mill Park use to head east on what is now mark State Trust Land. Two years ago I was at the east end of that road and figured I would just go around to the north but appears that is posted private property. Only place I go off road that has State Trust Land. Weird it's just a small section in the middle of the National Forest. Not worth buying the permit. Have you come across any other pockets of State Trust Land on the area. Probably always was state land just never posted years ago. Series doubt forest service would issue a ticket. Two years ago a Game and Fish officer passed me and parked back up in the trees on Fry Park. He only seemed interested anyone poaching.

89A to I-17 is tough if you want to stay close to the rim. I-17 to 87 unless you want to drop down to 260 in Camp Verde you have to stay on the northwest side of West Clear Creek. Think from 87 east is easier to stay along the rim. 300 road is not very exciting but loops north and back on FS roads are more interesting. Really enjoyed the run to the north side of the canyon a few years back. If they open the forest again maybe the northern group could plan something. I know those stuck in the oven are always looking for a few days to escape the heat. Hoping to make the meeting this coming Friday.

Remember years ago off of 180 north of Flagstaff where sections of aspens had 8' fence around them. Aspens were so thick you could see more than a few feet past the fence. Could see where deer had managed to crawl under the fence and a tunnel into the aspens. Few aspens cover by the rim in the area are doing poorly. A lot have died off. Luckily the elk seem to like oak leafs. We have plenty of those around here.
 

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