Toyota saving $$ short cuts 100 to 200 series? (1 Viewer)

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Owners that have had both what have you noticed when it comes to going backwards versus forward to save $$$ in engineering or build strength?

Example - 100 series oil change keep skid plate on several bolts 4-6, just open access for oil filter and remove, same with oil pan drain. With 200 remove entire front skid plate with only 3 bolts holding on the entire skid plate. This to me is an example of a company that is trying to save $$$ by under engineering the new model compared to the old model.
 
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I owned 2 100 series prior to picking up my 2013 200 sereis, I can tell you in all honesty this truck is better in every single way I can think of, really if I'm being honest not even close, and trust me, I love the 100 series, but this is apples to oranges...
 
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the brakes on the 200 might be slightly less beefy than the tundra but they are (IMO) a significant improvement over the 100 series...
 

gaijin

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With 200 remove entire front skid plate with only 3 bolts holding on the entire skid plate. This to me is an example of a company that is trying to save $$$ by under engineering the new model compared to the old model.

And where did you get that bit of misinformation?

To get to the oil filter on my 200, I have to remove the left hand front fender splash shield sub-assembly - that's 3 bolts - and then the No. 1 engine under cover sub-assembly (that's the TIS terminology for the left half of the skid plate) - that's another 5 bolts. My math (and trust me, I'm very good at math) tells me that's 8 bolts to remove just half the skid plate - definitely not "only 3 bolts holding on the entire skid plate."

To get to the oil drain plug, it's another 2 bolts to remove the No. 2 engine under cover seal.

Honestly, I have yet to find any "under engineering" anywhere in my 200 ;)
 
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And where did you get that bit of misinformation?

To get to the oil filter on my 200, I have to remove the left hand front fender splash shield sub-assembly - that's 3 bolts - and then the No. 1 engine under cover sub-assembly (that's the TIS terminology for the left half of the skid plate) - that's another 5 bolts. My math (and trust me, I'm very good at math) tells me that's 8 bolts to remove just half the skid plate - definitely not "only 3 bolts holding on the entire skid plate."

To get to the oil drain plug, it's another 2 bolts to remove the No. 2 engine under cover seal.

Honestly, I have yet to find any "under engineering" anywhere in my 200 ;)

Got it from reading the oil change thread where 2 owners were discussing. I don't have a 200 so just going by what I read and it concerned me since my plan is to someday move to the 200.
 

gaijin

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Got it from reading the oil change thread where 2 owners were discussing. I don't have a 200 so just going by what I read and it concerned me since my plan is to someday move to the 200.

Of course, you know not everything you read on the internet is true, right?

I'll find that thread and see what I can do to correct the error ...
 

Desert Nomad

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The 200 is tougher and more engineered over the 100 in every aspect in my opinion. In the US these are luxury rigs but in the middle east, Africa and Australia you can see the base spec work trucks that go through abuse day after day and are still running, with those you can really see what they're built out of and how tough they are.
 

MScruiser

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:doh:Ahem. That was me. My bad. I thought you just had to take the 3 bolts off the skid plate.
 

Desert Nomad

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Just to make things even less clear I think the TJM skid has 9 but I have a broken bolt head so I have 8 like everyone else even though I shouldn't.
 
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Guys don't take this personal. I love Hundys and just want to know everything I can before I buy a 200. Plus getting answers and info makes everyone more knowledgeable.
 

gaijin

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Guys don't take this personal. I love Hundys and just want to know everything I can before I buy a 200. Plus getting answers and info makes everyone more knowledgeable.

I don't think anyone is taking any of this personally - I know I'm not :)

It's just disappointing when a question as simple as how many bolts one must remove to change the oil and filter is answered with such obviously wrong information.

Makes me wonder how many folks who posted info on this ever actually changed the oil and filter on their own rigs :hmm:

Anyway ... I have owned - and worked on - a 40 series, an 80 series, a 100 series and now my current 200 series. Certainly the technology has come a long way, systems have become infinitely more complex and certainly harder to work on. It's funny, though, the things that stick in one's mind. I'll never forget just looking in wonder upon the single steel cable - attached with fasteners on each end - that held the glove box door when it was open on my 40. It was the embodiment of simple, rugged design that could be repaired or replaced simply and did the job perfectly well. Does that make it better than the glove box door on my 200? Does it matter?

:redface: Sorry for the stream of consciousness tangent there - now get on with the thread o_O
 
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I don't think anyone is taking any of this personally - I know I'm not :)

It's just disappointing when a question as simple as how many bolts one must remove to change the oil and filter is answered with such obviously wrong information.

Makes me wonder how many folks who posted info on this ever actually changed the oil and filter on their own rigs :hmm:

Anyway ... I have owned - and worked on - a 40 series, an 80 series, a 100 series and now my current 200 series. Certainly the technology has come a long way, systems have become infinitely more complex and certainly harder to work on. It's funny, though, the things that stick in one's mind. I'll never forget just looking in wonder upon the single steel cable - attached with fasteners on each end - that held the glove box door when it was open on my 40. It was the embodiment of simple, rugged design that could be repaired or replaced simply and did the job perfectly well. Does that make it better than the glove box door on my 200? Does it matter?

:redface: Sorry for the stream of consciousness tangent there - now get on with the thread o_O

I agree with your stream of consciousness :). I think the glove box example is perfect! If they make an improvement that is "better" but also as or more dependable and rugged then that's a improvement. Complexity is a problem when it comes to long term reliability, I just want to be aware of the limits and costs to repair. Along with how tough the 200 is. I started a thread on most miles. Problem is a little over 100k miles seems to be the current limit. Hard to measure reliability, etc. in that limited amount of miles along with expected long term concerns. In the 100 series we have owners with 400k+ miles and we know what fails and what to look for and the cost.
 

Desert Nomad

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That's the problem theres not enough high milers to determine the common failures for the 200s. I'll see with the service department here what common issuse arise with the 5.7. But even here most high mileage ones would be the ones with the 1-gr and 2-uz
 
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A cost savings measure I abhor is that my steering wheel has gone from all leather in the past to partial leather and crappy plastic. Who the hell would rather have crappy plastic to grab onto (or real wood for that matter) in lieu of leather?

Those sneaky Japs.....
 
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A cost savings measure I abhor is that my steering wheel has gone from all leather in the past to partial leather and crappy plastic. Who the hell would rather have crappy plastic to grab onto (or real wood for that matter) in lieu of leather?

Those sneaky Japs.....
I'm with ya on this, anyone recover the entire steering wheel with leather??? I'm thinking of doing this but have no idea how realistic it is, I would want it to look as factory as possible and line up nicely....
 
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I owned 2 100 series prior to picking up my 2013 200 sereis, I can tell you in all honesty this truck is better in every single way I can think of, really if I'm being honest not even close, and trust me, I love the 100 series, but this is apples to oranges...

Amen. Going from my old 100 to my new LX was a bit jarring but I'm getting used to it. The LX kind of feels like a mall cruiser over the top of all that imbedded capability (really, 20s on a truck?). I am reminded of when I transitioned from my 60 to my brand new 100 in 1998 (has it really been 16 years?). Big V8, power windows and seats, leather, sun roof, heated seats, auto transmission, full time 4wd, CD player, aluminum wheels, fuel injection, IFS? No manual choke or PTO? The new 100 can't be a real truck could it? Same feeling I had when I started driving the new LX. This has passed. The brakes are soooo much better than those in my 100. The LX is much quieter inside and the 19 speaker Mark Levinson is amazing. Although I am not that much into horsepower beyond the basics needed, and never felt the 100 was weak, the extra power of the 200 is really noticeable in the mountains. Gas mileage is actually better.

After 7 months of ownership and 42k miles, here are the things I don't love about my new LX:
Seat heaters are weak compared to the 100. Much better than the 60 though :)
Adjustable dampers - the ride goes from firm (good) to floating (BAD!)
Stupid wood on the steering wheel
20 inch wheels - easy enough to fix
LED map lights are too dim and narrow of beam compared to the 100
No power outlets / cigarette lights in second row - what were they thinking there?
The 5.7 is not nearly as quiet as the 4.7. Even after 16 years and 331,000 miles the motor on my 100 was nearly silent, really sounding more like a sewing machine than a big V8. It seemed as though they put a lot more of a focus on smoothness and quietness on that Lexus motor rather than power and torque like the Toyota.

Everything else is spot on.
 
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MScruiser

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Things I don't like about the LX 200:
Seat heaters are weak compared to the 100. Amen! My wife's subaru has much better seat warmers.
Stupid wood on the steering wheel Amen! At least give me real wood or some plush leather.
LED map lights are too dim and narrow of beam compared to the 100. I haven't noticed that yet, but haven't really used them either.
No power outlets / cigarette lights in second row - what were they thinking there? Yeah, this really surprised me too. WTF?
The 5.7 is not nearly as quiet as the 4.7. I will say that the 5.7 is pretty unrefined as far as engines go.

I am going to have a bunch of people dog pile me for saying that too. Don't get me wrong; it is a great engine and I expect it will last a long long time, but overall it is unrefined in my opinion. Many appear to have problems with engine/exhaust drone (not me). There is a bit of transmission jarring that occurs when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd (~18mph @ ~1800-2000 rpm.). This is well documented in the Tundra forums (I myself have noticed this too when coming to a stop sign).

Another point to make is supporting the fact that the 5.7 is unrefined, is the fact that they can consume oil and sometimes alot of it. Again, this is well documented in the Tundra forums. Toyota even addressed the issue by saying that 1 quart of oil consumption for every 5,000 miles was considered normal. Not necessarily a bad thing, but you would think that a modern day engine would consume almost zero oil. I have noticed this myself, after realizing I has about a quart shy of full since my last oil change (~6,000 miles ago).


Everything else is spot on.
 
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Oil consumption isnt exclusive to the 5.7 or Toyota engines in general. It's just he nature of ice.

My panamera turbo eats oil comparatively but within factory specs.

5.7 is a wonderful engine and mine has displayed none of the faults of others here. I'd take it over the prem gas sucking, less efficient and much less powerful 2uz any given Sunday.
 

MScruiser

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And I am not arguing with you either; The 5.7 is a great engine; its just not as refined as it is made out to be. I love mine--tons of power.
 

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