Toyota LandCruiser 70 Series 2.8-litre turbo diesel four-cylinder coming, V8 to live on (1 Viewer)

[roscoFJ73]

I feel people have forgotten that the "Landcruiser V8" is actually two Toyota Avensis 2.2 diesels sharing a crank. They had all sorts of oil consumption issues around launch but they seem to be sorted now.

I am pretty sure I was the first one to supply this piece of information on MUD. I got it from a journo's review who got it from a toyota exec, in one of the local 4wd mags. At first you went along with it. Then after inspecting an engine(according to you) you then declared it had no resemblance to 2 Avensis engines.
Now you are saying it is 2 Avensis engines.
Now, what you will do next is frantically go back through your posts and delete the incriminating bits when you get caught with your pants down telling fibs, like you always do.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Legal payload doesn’t really come into it - when you want to carry 1.6T

Yep.
As an apprentice (late 80s), my 1st boss had me pick up a full pallet of cement bags with his turbocharged 75 series and drive it to a job site.

A full pallet of cement was something like 2.2 tonne.

He had a small flat bed truck too, but sent me in the cruiser (15 yrs old, and no drivers license), because the cruiser would be "easier to drive" with that amount of weight on it.

I remember being worried about pulling out of the hardware yard, as it was on an incline onto the highway, with traffic approaching downhill, around a bend at 70ish km/h.

I've not seen any coil sprung Japanese Ute you could expect that from.

 

[Hulsty]

There has been a 4 year waiting list to get 70 seties in Australia, they must have something going for them. Maybe its the weight. Smaller 4wds can tow large loads, but only larger vehicles can keep them on the road when it all goes to sh*t.

Its funny, my Dad had a VDJ79, for about 10 years, got it to something like 250k on the clock, chipped. big exhaust, canopy etc. Towed a tool trailer every day, did two laps of Australia with various different vans on the back and I think the biggest failure it ever had was the clock spring. Sold it for a VDJ200 ~ 3 years ago and still remarks how he missed the 70 series, rowing through the gears etc.

 

[Dougal]

Hello,

There are additional sets:

1. The military, especially nonconventional forces.
2. Irregular forces.
3. Aid/relief agencies.
4. People around the world in need of a workhorse.

The current 70 Series fits the roles of light military vehicles.

Yes, it is becoming a dinosaur. I hope whatever engine they drop in future models be as reliable as the engines used so far.

As for a hybrid drive train, it will be interesting to see whether it can be put into a 70 Series. After all, there is a prototype of a hybrid Abrams tank.

Juan

Which militaries use the current 70 series?

You’ve missed the biggest buyer and its most worthy - the farmer. According to a senior Toyota Australia employee at Agquip a couple of years ago Australian agricultural sales alone of 70 series were enough to keep the model going and were the highest world wide. Here, locally and everywhere I’ve been in rural Australia the 40 then 70 series have ruled the commercial (not hobby) agricultural ute sector, and it still does.

Legal payload doesn’t really come into it - when you want to carry 1.6T (two export grade large square bales, 500L of diesel along with a full plant service body, tray full of sand to name a few) and tow 4T (more hay) off road in extreme conditions of steep very rough country in very high temperatures and high dust day in day out, or cover high Km of extremely rough terrain for 20 years straight - there is no vehicle to match it. Except maybe a patrol, but they haven’t been available for several years now. Maybe a G-Wagon could, but they’re only in auto (no farmer would want one of them) and half as much again in cost plus no practical parts/dealer support.

IFS is a joke in relentless rough conditions. Where I just moved from a cattle property all the private IFS vehicles were destroyed by the road in - everything from Hiluxes, Rangers, Colorados etc. needed constant and frankly extreme maintenance (could hardly keen ball joints and bushes up to the hiluxes, rangers bodies cracking off above the wheel arches, snapping suspension struts, snapping chassis, rodeo engine falling out etc.). By comparison the large fleet of 70 series I managed needed very little repairs despite much harsher use. Not to mention how much better the off road ability is - my take away was IFS is not suitable for extreme conditions.

Just because cashed up off roaders and bitumen warriors also buy them doesn’t take away from the fact that some people genuinely need the chassis and suspension that only a 70 series offers.

Peak figures aren’t everything. As Toyota admitted - the 1VD has the flattest torque curve, and that’s in its very detuned state. Much nicer to tow with than a peaky overstressed 4 banger (if you’re spending this much on a vehicle, you want to get 500k-1m Km out of it). And then a bit of a tune and it’ll blow all the fragile 4 cylinders away

I don't see any farmers here using the 70 series. They're all using Ford Ranger, Toyota Hilux or Isuzu Dmax. Aside from all the benefits already mentioned the agility of the utes is far better.
Farmers here use utes for dogs, tools and towing. Tractors do all the heavier work.

Power/torque hasn't been a problem in the ute market for over a decade. They've all got plenty for work which is largely low range driving. Throwing mud is another thing all together.

The stock suspension on a 70 series doesn't have anything good to offer. Everyone using them offroad has to upgrade everything. Stock they are incredibly stiff and can't flex.

You live in the NZ market which by world standards is pretty small

There has been a 4 year waiting list to get 70 seties in Australia, they must have something going for them. Maybe its the weight. Smaller 4wds can tow large loads, but only larger vehicles can keep them on the road when it all goes to sh*t.

The waiting list was largely due to production stopping for a while. I can't think of any situation where a 70 series will be nice and safe while a ranger or dmax would be dangerous.

I am pretty sure I was the first one to supply this piece of information on MUD. I got it from a journo's review who got it from a toyota exec, in one of the local 4wd mags. At first you went along with it. Then after inspecting an engine(according to you) you then declared it had no resemblance to 2 Avensis engines.
Now you are saying it is 2 Avensis engines.
Now, what you will do next is frantically go back through your posts and delete the incriminating bits when you get caught with your pants down telling fibs, like you always do.

The bore and stroke matches exactly. That's game-set and match for engine design.

2007 Toyota Avensis 2.2 D-4D 180 specifications, technical data, performance

2007 Toyota Avensis 2.2 D-4D 180 - full technical specs sheet, including performance data, economy and emissions, dimensions, weight and engine particulars.

www.carfolio.com

1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 D Engine - In-Depth Look at Design and Reliability

What is the 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 D Engine? Is it good or bad? Read about Toyota 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 D Engine design and features, its the most common problems and relaibility.

www.motorreviewer.com

Same bore, same stroke, same capacity, same valve arrangement, same injection system and arrangement etc etc etc.

Go ahead and pretend that Toyota designed two totally different engines and just happened to settle on all these parts being dimensionally identical. File it next to the 1HZ-T not existing.

 

[JuanJ]

Which militaries use the current 70 series?

Hello,

Off the top of my head:

1. Pakistan.
2. Bangladesh.
3. Ukraine (76 Series only from what I have found out.)
4. Portugal (mostly 73/74 Series, I am not sure whether they are still on active duty.)
5. Algeria.
6. Sudan.
7. South Sudan.

Modified 70 Series Cruisers are used by the militaries of a few Middle East countries. Special operations forces from the US and France use them as well. I might add the UK's SAS to the list, but I am not sure.

Irregular forces that use or have used 70 Series trucks include the Islamic State, Sudan's Janjaweed, Libyan fighters, Mali and Central African Republic rebels, among others.

The 1HZ-T did exist, as the power plant for Coaster buses. Not as many as its naturally aspired counterpart, though.







Juan

EDIT: I mentioned Janjaweed as an irregular force. I understand they changed their name sometime between 2014 and 2020. Though they are formally part of the Sudanese army, their methods are those of irregular combatants rather than regular army or special operations forces: that makes them irregulars (or should I say terrorists?) in my book.

 

[wedgetail]

I don't see any farmers here using the 70 series. They're all using Ford Ranger, Toyota Hilux or Isuzu Dmax. Aside from all the benefits already mentioned the agility of the utes is far better.
Farmers here use utes for dogs, tools and towing. Tractors do all the heavier work.

Power/torque hasn't been a problem in the ute market for over a decade. They've all got plenty for work which is largely low range driving. Throwing mud is another thing all together.

The stock suspension on a 70 series doesn't have anything good to offer. Everyone using them offroad has to upgrade everything. Stock they are incredibly stiff and can't flex.

Well you’re in New Zealand, I was talking about Aussie farmers. Due to the size and population, Aussie farmers are a much bigger market and ambient temperatures are much higher so the engine is much more stressed. But that’s a separate issue, you missed the main point of my post which is that - IFS utes are NOT tough enough - the toughest work utes by a long way are 70 series and Patrols (NLA). IFS utes break (and break down), where SFA utes don’t. Ranger, Hilux and Dmax little fall apart and snap on various places, 70 series given the same conditions or worse do not. Simple as that - the chassis and suspension are not tough enough, off road ability aside - which even if they are stiff stock is still a hell of a lot better than the flimsy IFS utes that break all the time.

If you’re not breaking IFS, your conditions aren’t extreme and you don’t need a 70 series. But that doesn’t mean other people operating in other more extreme conditions don’t need a tougher vehicle that can handle more abuse

 

[Dougal]

Well you’re in New Zealand, I was talking about Aussie farmers. Due to the size and population, Aussie farmers are a much bigger market and ambient temperatures are much higher so the engine is much more stressed. But that’s a separate issue, you missed the main point of my post which is that - IFS utes are NOT tough enough - the toughest work utes by a long way are 70 series and Patrols (NLA). IFS utes break (and break down), where SFA utes don’t. Ranger, Hilux and Dmax little fall apart and snap on various places, 70 series given the same conditions or worse do not. Simple as that - the chassis and suspension are not tough enough, off road ability aside - which even if they are stiff stock is still a hell of a lot better than the flimsy IFS utes that break all the time.

If you’re not breaking IFS, your conditions aren’t extreme and you don’t need a 70 series. But that doesn’t mean other people operating in other more extreme conditions don’t need a tougher vehicle that can handle more abuse

Rangers are the most common ute here and I've never heard of any IFS problems with them. They have plenty of other problems, particularly engine, but IFS problems I've never heard of.
Same with the other utes. People will blow CV joints from lifting them too much, mitsubishis do head-gaskets, Isuzu's do clutch slave, hiluxs drink more than rangers and that's about it.

Have you got any reading on all these suspension issues?

 

[wedgetail]

Rangers are the most common ute here and I've never heard of any IFS problems with them. They have plenty of other problems, particularly engine, but IFS problems I've never heard of.
Same with the other utes. People will blow CV joints from lifting them too much, mitsubishis do head-gaskets, Isuzu's do clutch slave, hiluxs drink more than rangers and that's about it.

Have you got any reading on all these suspension issues?

the suspension problems aren’t necessarily specific to Rangers (unlike the cracking bodies), but across the board on all the light duty IFS vehicles. I have no reading on them - just my experience living and working for 14 years on rural Australian properties. Before moving I had no bias w/r to IFS or SFA, however having witnessed the difference in durability between the two I will never own a 4x4 IFS (let alone IRS) vehicle, and make sure my employers don’t either (not that they do - they’re too sensible)

 

[Dougal]

the suspension problems aren’t necessarily specific to Rangers (unlike the cracking bodies), but across the board on all the light duty IFS vehicles. I have no reading on them - just my experience living and working for 14 years on rural Australian properties. Before moving I had no bias w/r to IFS or SFA, however having witnessed the difference in durability between the two I will never own a 4x4 IFS (let alone IRS) vehicle, and make sure my employers don’t either (not that they do - they’re too sensible)

If they were there and widespread you would have endless examples. How come we're not seeing them either? We've had screaming from the beam axle fans since the 100 series landcruiser launched in 1999 and the hilux almost a decade before that.

Aside from being less easy to modify the claimed issues just aren't there.

 

[Indestructible 47]

We can all say what we want about them - the fact is the market speaks for itself. The fact that Toyota had to stop (and still isn't) taking orders is unprecedented.

 

[wedgetail]

If they were there and widespread you would have endless examples. How come we're not seeing them either?…

the claimed issues just aren't there.

What because there isn’t a link on google it isn’t an issue? Probably because the majority of Aussie farmers don’t bother bitching about it how fragile the light duty IFS utes are online they just buy a Landcruiser and get on with their life. The evidence I’ve seen in extreme conditions is unanimous. Maybe not widespread enough for the media to report it as the majority of people don’t use their IFS utes in extreme conditions, but that doesn’t change the fact they break where cruisers don’t.

I guess it’s hard for you to get your head around as you’re in New Zealand and the problem is in rural Australia - something which you clearly have no experience of so can’t comment. The fact is I have seen with my own eyes consistent and multiple repeated failures of the majority of IFS utes whereas cruisers given the same treatment or worse do not fail. The fact you can’t believe this as you haven’t experienced doesn’t really change anything

 

[wedgetail]

And then there’s the whole chassis snapping saga - there are yards in QLD several acres big full of IFS ute dial cabs with snapped chassis’s from towing large caravans. Not because they’re IFS, just cos they’re flimsy light duty vehicles with too much power for their own good. It’s a well documented issue - should be heaps on google if you want to read up on it

 

[jayp2]

Ssoooo much persistent hate for the 70's....I dont get it.

If you dont like the 70 so be it....dont buy it....but the near religious propaganda war against them is a bit much

Haters gonna hate.....

 

[speycaster]

I have really liked mine since 1985, when I first saw one. Had to wait until 1990 to find one at the right price. it Had 210, 000 kilometres on it when i bought it, now it is just shy of 600, 000. Same frame, transmission, transfer case , drive units. All rebuilt at 537,000 K when I changed the 3B for a 13BT.w Two brake jobs in that time and one clutch. Wonderful vehicle, fun to drive if you accept that you are driving an old design of motor vehicle. But I have driven far older motor vehicles, Mack and similar trucks from the 1920s and 30s are harder to drive but still a lot of fun. Motor vehicles should be fun to drive and not boring.

 

[jayp2]

I have really liked mine since 1985, when I first saw one. Had to wait until 1990 to find one at the right price. it Had 210, 000 kilometres on it when i bought it, now it is just shy of 600, 000. Same frame, transmission, transfer case , drive units. All rebuilt at 537,000 K when I changed the 3B for a 13BT.w Two brake jobs in that time and one clutch. Wonderful vehicle, fun to drive if you accept that you are driving an old design of motor vehicle. But I have driven far older motor vehicles, Mack and similar trucks from the 1920s and 30s are harder to drive but still a lot of fun. Motor vehicles should be fun to drive and not boring.

I am seeing more and more drivers of vehicles with all of the lane warning/passing car squawking BS just start to freeze up and go limp when the car starts to squawk instead of looking around/paying attention to whats going on

Its really troubling to see folks near panic/unresponsive behind the wheel due to "Safety features"

 

[mudgudgeon]

And then there’s the whole chassis snapping saga - there are yards in QLD several acres big full of IFS ute dial cabs with snapped chassis’s from towing large caravans. Not because they’re IFS, just cos they’re flimsy light duty vehicles with too much power for their own good. It’s a well documented issue - should be heaps on google if you want to read up on it

Tritons are famous for it!

 

[wedgetail]

Tritons are famous for it!

Yes they’re good for it - but sometimes it’s hard to separate the cause there, some Triton owners can be especially hard on them… definitely not limited to Tritons though - I recall a leading ABC news article mentioning Rangers as a leading contender. I see in your pics the one African 70 series is a custom chop job - who knows what was done to the troopy chassis

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yes they’re good for it - but sometimes it’s hard to separate the cause there, some Triton owners can be especially hard on them… definitely not limited to Tritons though - I recall a leading ABC news article mentioning Rangers as a leading contender. I see in your pics the one African 70 series is a custom chop job - who knows what was done to the troopy chassis

Pics are all random from a google search.
Some are clearly abused and overloaded

 

[Dougal]

What because there isn’t a link on google it isn’t an issue? Probably because the majority of Aussie farmers don’t bother bitching about it how fragile the light duty IFS utes are online they just buy a Landcruiser and get on with their life. The evidence I’ve seen in extreme conditions is unanimous. Maybe not widespread enough for the media to report it as the majority of people don’t use their IFS utes in extreme conditions, but that doesn’t change the fact they break where cruisers don’t.

I guess it’s hard for you to get your head around as you’re in New Zealand and the problem is in rural Australia - something which you clearly have no experience of so can’t comment. The fact is I have seen with my own eyes consistent and multiple repeated failures of the majority of IFS utes whereas cruisers given the same treatment or worse do not fail. The fact you can’t believe this as you haven’t experienced doesn’t really change anything

It's pretty hard to hide widespread issues from the internet. They have the internet even in rural australia. I've also experienced Kiwis being better at breaking things than almost anywhere else worldwide. Yet we don't have the claimed ute IFS issues.
Plenty of engine issues etc etc.

You know it's possible to be a 70 series cruiser fan without making up a whole heap of claims you can't back about other vehicles?

And then there’s the whole chassis snapping saga - there are yards in QLD several acres big full of IFS ute dial cabs with snapped chassis’s from towing large caravans. Not because they’re IFS, just cos they’re flimsy light duty vehicles with too much power for their own good. It’s a well documented issue - should be heaps on google if you want to read up on it

Chassis issues are a great example. They are all over the internet. A large contributor is "helper" air-bags which point load the chassis over the back axle. Another large contributor is the Triton having the shortest wheelbase and the whole deck behind the back axle!

As you can see the 70 series isn't immune though.

 

[mudgudgeon]

It's pretty hard to hide widespread issues from the internet. They have the internet even in rural australia. I've also experienced Kiwis being better at breaking things than almost anywhere else worldwide. Yet we don't have the claimed ute IFS issues.
Plenty of engine issues etc etc.

You know it's possible to be a 70 series cruiser fan without making up a whole heap of claims you can't back about other vehicles?



Chassis issues are a great example. They are all over the internet. A large contributor is "helper" air-bags which point load the chassis over the back axle. Another large contributor is the Triton having the shortest wheelbase and the whole deck behind the back axle!

As you can see the 70 series isn't immune though.

You're still not comparing apples to apples though.

I found 1 pic of a 70series with broken back.
The helper air bags kind of illustrates the point too.
The lesser Japanese utes can't match the carrying capacity of the 70 series without them.
There's plenty of pics where the break is away from the air bags