Tongue Weight Towing Problem

[MonsterDood]

So I am looking at a 14' toy hauler that is about 3200 lb unloaded, but the tongue weight is listed as 695 lb! It's a double axle Carson with a total GVWR of 7000 lb. I plan on keeping the total weight under 4500lb with all my gear and a motorcycle and most definitely will keep it under the 5000lb. But what are my options, if any, about this dry tongue weight? I can load my gear a little towards the back to balance the trailer a bit more when loaded, but I don't feel like exceeding the class III hitch rating of 500 lb of tongue weight when unloaded. Is there a class iv hitch I could use or some other option? Modify my existing valley hitch to better support the additional weight?

I'm planning on upgrading the rear suspension to help deal with the new weight, but I'm torn on this stupid tongue weight. I find a nice toy hauler that is within my rated tow weight but the tongue weight might hose me.

If I promise to only tow the thing loaded with a lower tongue weight (load at the back of the toy hauler) and I only have a 5 mile drive from the dealer to my house, do you think I am crazy to still want it? I really love my Landcrusher and would rather give up on a toy hauler than to get a different tow vehicle..... any inputs would be appreciated.

 

[woody]

properly balanced with a 10% tongue weight, you'll be well within the 500# guideline.

I have airbags installed in mine, inexpensive and they work great.

I have also used a weight-dist hitch, and while not recommended per the Toyota owners manual, it worked just fine.

 

[Brentbba]

As the All Mighty as said, get some Airlift airbags and you'll probably be fine. The Parts Master/Shaman would disagree.

 

[Nay]

If GVWR on the trailer is 7,000 lbs, then tongue would be 700 @ 10%. Sound dead on to me.

You are fine....although a 3,200 lb trailer sounds like enormous overkill for the weight you want to carry.

Nay

 

[MonsterDood]

Right, the dry tongue weight is 10% of it fully loaded, and if you were to load it evenly over the axles, the tongue weight would stay at 700lb, so still over the rated tongue weight for a class III hitch. It would seem to me that a weight distributing hitch would be in order, but it also seems an intelligent reinforcement of the hitch to my frame might be required either way. Maybe an extra support bracket or some extra bolts. A 700lb tongue weight or a weight distributing hitch with the added moments it would put on the hitch to frame junction seems like it might call for some reinforcement. So... get some bags and call it a day or....

 

[IdahoDoug]

I think you need to clarify a couple things with the trailer. 3200lbs for an empty trailer that can only carry 7000lbs??? That's a trailer that can only carry 50% of its weight and sounds screwy. I think the trailer's lighter than that. Ditto the tongue weight - 700lbs on an empty trailer??

I think you're reading a max tongue weight stamped on the trailer. I also think the trailer's weight at 3200lbs is incorrect unless you're tallking one of those camper/toy hauler combos which then it all makes sense.

I tow all summer with at least 600lbs of tongue weight using Airlifts and I'm perfectly level and have no issues with a Class III hitch rated at 500lbs.

One thing I would expressly recommend you NOT do is try to load rearward to offset a heavy tongue weight as then you've got a dangerously imbalanced trailer. You haven't lived yet until you've felt a trailer loaded rear heavy start to oscillate back and forth.... Bad idea.


DougM

 

[Nay]

One thing I would expressly recommend you NOT do is try to load rearward to offset a heavy tongue weight as then you've got a dangerously imbalanced trailer. You haven't lived yet until you've felt a trailer loaded rear heavy start to oscillate back and forth.... Bad idea.

Especially when said trailer is rolling along at 60 mph behind a 3,500 lb Jeep

 

[firetruck41]

. I also think the trailer's weight at 3200lbs is incorrect unless you're tallking one of those camper/toy hauler combos which then it all makes sense.

First line of original post:

So I am looking at a 14' toy hauler

Doug, your getting old in your old age. Other than that I am worthless and have nothing to add;p .

 

[Brentbba]

One other question/comment - does the trailer have brakes? It should with that kind of weight. If surge brakes, you will be good to go when hitched. If electric, you're going to need a brake controller in the truck.

 

[John E Davies]

I think you would definitely be foolish to haul more than 5000 pounds with your Cruiser. I once pulled 7000 pounds of travel trailer all over the place.... but I used a big block Chevy Suburban. No way would I haul anywhere near that much behind a normally aspirated Cruiser.

The trailer's tongue weight is probably _heavily_ biased forward so that it gets into a more reasonable 10-14% when you fully load the back with ATVs or bikes and all the gas cans and gear that goes with them. Maxed out at 7000 GVWR, the tongue weight is probably still in the same range as it is completely empty. If you don't plan on fully loading the back, the tongue will always be heavy (percentage-wise) - that's the nature of the design.

The advertised weights are for a stripped trailer. Add air conditioning, second house battery, generator etc etc and the empty weight will climb very quickly. So the only way to tell for sure with ANY trailer is to load it and weigh it at a local truck scale. Weigh the axles and tongue seperately and add 'em up. Your comment "I plan on keeping the total weight under 4500 pounds with all my gear" stumps me - I just don't think that is meaningful. You will probably end up with the trailer weighing at least 1500 pounds over the advertised empty weight, and it could in fact be a lot more, depending on how the trailer is equipped. And if you do manage to keep it lightly loaded, you won't be able to do anything about that heavy tongue, because you won't have enough ballast to load toward the back.

Perhaps there is a way to adjust the axle positions on the frame? That is _major_ surgery on most trailers and I don't recommend it for a variety of reasons. Least of which is that it would probably void the warranty.


If the fresh, gray and/ or black water tanks aren't behind the rear axle centerline, it would be helpful to move them there, if you can find a suitable spot. Water makes an _excellent_ adjustable ballast. Or consider adding a second big fresh water tank (100+ gallons) waaay back that you can use for ballast - run the forward tank empty most of the time. A simple electric transfer pump can interconnect the tank with your main tank if you wish. You can never have too much fresh water - esp when you need to shower! The gray water can usually be dumped descretely into nearby bushes using a long garden hose to lighten up for the trip home..

If the trailer only has one battery, you probably shouldn't plan on adding another since they are normally sitting about 5 feet back from the hitch. Ditto for propane tanks - keep it as light as possible if they are up front.

And yes, an equalizing hitch would work wonders... get one with 750 pound rated bars. Also a good brake controller. I like the Jordan - it excells off-road as well as on.

Be safe.

John Davies
Spokane WA

 

[John E Davies]

One thing I would expressly recommend you NOT do is try to load rearward to offset a heavy tongue weight as then you've got a dangerously imbalanced trailer. You haven't lived yet until you've felt a trailer loaded rear heavy start to oscillate back and forth.... Bad idea.

DougM

Normally I would agree with you 100%, Doug, but toy haulers are engineered with super-heavy tongue weights for exactly that reason - so you can load the piss out of the back garage with heavy power equipment. As long as the trailer structure is engineered for the floor loading, it will actually improve the towing of a toy hauler to load it "properly": ie: lots of stuff in back.

A sway control is also a _great_ idea for any trailer this size, esp when towing with a short WB vehicle.

John Davies
Spokane WA

 

[MonsterDood]

Thanks for the feedback. The 3400 is the weight per a person with the same model. I think I can reasonably keep the total weight uner 4500 with water, gas cans, bike, and some equipment. My point there is I am not planning on using the full 5000lb and I certainy am not planning on towing up the GVRW quoted on the trailer. I'm still a bit on the fence on whether this toy hauler would be a good solution for me or if I am trying to fit a round peg through a square hole... I have a rule that if I am i doubt, I should go cheaper and simpler so I need to have a little come to Jesus on whether this toy hauler is the right thing....

Thanks again for the help, my conclusion is that I would use air bags and load distributing hitch. The trailer does have electric brakes so I would aso get an electronic controller.... IFFFFFF I decide to get the toy hauler...

 

[Nay]

I'd recommend you spend a day towing around 5K lbs with your 80 before you buy. I think that will make your decision for you, 'cause if you plan to tow frequently, that kind of weight behind an inline six on a 5,000 lb rig is gonna get real old real quick.

Nay

 

[robjam]

One thing I would expressly recommend you NOT do is try to load rearward to offset a heavy tongue weight as then you've got a dangerously imbalanced trailer. You haven't lived yet until you've felt a trailer loaded rear heavy start to oscillate back and forth.... Bad idea.


DougM

Yup. Doug is right on that one. I loaded up and pulled out of Jackson Hole and had some extra space at the end of my trailer. Extra space? Hmm, I'll have to fill that up to keep the load from shifting. Stopped at the local beer distributor for some Snake River Lager & Pale Ale to ease the pain of leaving. Eight cases later, at the very rear of the trailer, I realized I was shaking the beer to much , as well as the rig. You wanna talk about white knucles, the trailer weighed about as much as the rig and that just doesn't work when loaded heavy in the rear of the trailer. The moral of the story = I like Snake River Lager

 

[MTNRAT]

A 3500lb trailer is way overkill for a toy hauler. I know my bobcat trailer weighs less.

Cheers,
Sean

 

[MonsterDood]

I was looking at the Carson Rebel (carsontrailers.com) for your reference. A toy hauler is a towable RV with a ramp door in the back and it has beds, kitchen, bathroom, cabinets, etc.... 3200 lb is a pretty low empty weight but I was looking at the little shorty one that is only 14' long.

BUT I decided against towing that much weight. If I upgraded the brakes and looked at a super charger, I think it would be alright, but I'm going with cheap and simple and will get a folding 2-bike trailer for 10% of the cost of the toyhauler..... An open trailer with an SUV makes a lot of sense and I will either camp outside or stay at a hotel when racing my bikes, but it will be a heck of a lot cheaper.

I still might get the air bags or uprated rear springs to deal with the back being fully loaded and towing the trailer with whatever tongue weight it will have.

Thanks for the feedback, it helped me make the decision.

 

[Colorado Boy-74-FJ40]

trailer

This one I rented was only 2350 pounds

 

[MonsterDood]

That is a flat trailer. Did I mis-state something? A Toy Hauler is a fully enclosed trailer with living quarters. The couches / beds fold out of the way to hold motorcycles or ATVs and what not. They are heavier than flat trailers because you sleep in them....

It's a moot point since I'm going with a small (and very light) flat folding trailer, but there are about 4 references to the weight of the Toy hauler seeming high. Maybe Toy Haulers are a Southern California thing... I don't know....

 

[MTNRAT]

Ahhh, so now I know what a toy hauler is. I just thought it was any trailer that you put toys on.
Cheers,
Sean

 

[woody]

THAT's a Toy hauler...with the proper towing rig too (Volvo). Rear space is 14' (barely) and Jon is building a new FJ40 tube chassis that'll JUST fit...

course, he's also shopping for a toterhome too... (can't wait to see what people think THOSE are...lol)