To crimp or not to crimp, there is no question (1 Viewer)

[Delta VS]

While this is not directly related to 80 series, with more and more stuff getting added to our vehicles all the time, and folks replacing old with new, figured this is good knowledge base type stuff.

Came across a reference to this article when reading up on headlight wiring for an unrelated project (on the Daniel Stern site). First time in a while I’ve seen a nice, succinct write up of such a boring topic.

There are few places on an 80 that should see solder, so getting familiar with crimps will go a long ways in keeping your 80 reliable.

We recently switched to using only closed-barrel terminals (from the open barrel type) for connectors that get cycled (taken on and off), and have been a firm believer in ring terminals, whenever possible, for some time now (after an extremely painful lesson of their importance).

Along with upgrading to closed-barrel terminals comes a requirement to upgrade the crimpers. Tried a few different ones out and settled on these (not a link):

It can be a little expensive to get setup with the crimpers and a connector kit, but worth every penny every time you have to disconnect (and reconnect) something.

 

[DivByZero]

I've done a fair bit of electrical work on my 80, and I've learned the hard way that here in Australia at least, you seemingly can't walk into a parts store anywhere and get any terminals or joiners that are worth buying. Good quality crimping tools don't help with rubbish connectors. I've resorted to solder splices or crimps I really wasn't happy with purely out of needing to get something done, and not being able to wait a week for better parts to arrive in the mail. If anyone has recommendations on quality brands for terminals, connectors, and joiners, I'd love to hear them. I feel like I've been through 30 different brands of rubbish. I went to rs electronics when I did crimps for 2B&S cable for my dual battery system to get professional terminals, but when it comes to small low amp stuff in the dash it's an assortment of rubbish I've used more often than not I'm afraid. Any good brands out there that produce good copper terminals that someone can vouch for? I'd buy them from the states at this point, like I said I could only find rubbish here locally.

I'm also very interested in what people do about splicing. A lot of the time I cut and crimp a joiner with two wires on the other side, but I don't like doing it. Some people swear by solder splicing. I'm not sure how I feel about that either. Any opinions someone wants to share?

 

[Road Apple]

We recently switched to using only closed-barrel terminals (from the open barrel type) for connectors that get cycled (taken on and off), and have been a firm believer in ring terminals, whenever possible, for some time now (after an extremely painful lesson of their importance).

Along with upgrading to closed-barrel terminals comes a requirement to upgrade the crimpers. Tried a few different ones out and settled on these (not a link):
It can be a little expensive to get setup with the crimpers and a connector kit, but worth every penny every time you have to disconnect (and reconnect) something.

Interesting article that opened my eyes to the importance of quality connections. I’ll be installing your Switch Pro mount soon. The crimper shown above is for pin connectors, which I’ve never seen or used. @Delta VS, what type of connector and crimper do you suggest for this installation?

 

[haulin auss]

I switched over to all Deutsch DT fittings a few years ago, love them. Working with closed-barrel terminals is a joy

 

[leonard_nemoy]

I prefer to use these solder butt connectors whenever I can. I have used these a bunch on the 80 and at various jobs. When you heat them up (an electric heat gun works best) the outside shrinks and the waterproof glue melts making a water tight seal. Once the outside shrinks it holds the wires in place. As you keep heating them up the solder inside the connector melts and solders the two wires together. Than I will slide a piece of heat shrink with some of the waterproof hot glue stuff on the inside over these connectors for a double water tight connection.

You can see them in this picture. The blue is the ring of waterproof stuff that melts and seals when the connector body shrinks.

I have tested these, I used one to join two wires and tried with all my might to pull them apart. I ended up pulling the wire sheathing off and the connection stayed strong. Another bonus is the fact that you can heat them up until the solder melts and undo the connection without having to cut or remove any wires when doing repairs.



For wiring in areas where I want to avoid using lots of heat I like to use the good quality crimp butt connectors with the heavy duty heat shrink body coated in the inside with the snazzy waterproof glue stuff.

Heat Shrink Butt Connector Blue 16-14 AWG | K.L. Jack - https://www.kljack.com/products/et401b/

 

[jellis]

Similar to Leonard, I've had great success with heat-shrink sealing fittings although I typically use the crimp kind vs. solder:
Waterproof Heat Shrink Crimp Connectors
Solder is clever being able to reheat and tear apart without cutting if you screw up or want to change something, I've never thought of that. That's actually quite nice on these harnesses where changing the length of a single wire screws up the loom.

Good crimpers are the key here, not your typical all-in one crimper/cutter but an actual dedicated wide format crimper. Wirefy's own crimper is frustrating to use but does crimp quite well.

The real key though, as Leonard pointed out, is coming back and double-sealing with a waterproofing heat shrink over the top of these waterproof connectors if they're in an exposed environment....lots of sizes of this stuff that I keep on the shelf (3/4, 1/2, and 1/4" diameter):
Marine Heat Shrink

When I bought my rig from the PO, my front locker lights were on all the time. Weird. Looking closer I found that the cables had been melted due to relocating the exhaust without taking into account the needs to move the wires! FORTUNATELY the front locker didn't spontaneous engage!!! Needless to say used these butt connectors on all wires and wrapped them with 3/4" heat shrink many years and multiple water crossings have gone by without issue.

I also use these for removable connections (spade terminals) but Delta's pin crimper and terminals are FAR superior if it will be disconnected often at all....will have to keep that in mind for future work, never seen these before, thanks for the tip on that!

 

[on the rocks]

While this is not directly related to 80 series, with more and more stuff getting added to our vehicles all the time, and folks replacing old with new, figured this is good knowledge base type stuff.

Came across a reference to this article when reading up on headlight wiring for an unrelated project (on the Daniel Stern site). First time in a while I’ve seen a nice, succinct write up of such a boring topic.

There are few places on an 80 that should see solder, so getting familiar with crimps will go a long ways in keeping your 80 reliable.

We recently switched to using only closed-barrel terminals (from the open barrel type) for connectors that get cycled (taken on and off), and have been a firm believer in ring terminals, whenever possible, for some time now (after an extremely painful lesson of their importance).

Along with upgrading to closed-barrel terminals comes a requirement to upgrade the crimpers. Tried a few different ones out and settled on these (not a link):

Coming form a telecom background I have always been a huge believer in ring terminal lugs. In a moving vehicle, it seems like a no brainer, that goes for soldering you wire before you crimp as well.
What do you mean by open barrel/ closed barrel terminals? Stinger style that requires a mechanical crimp? (sorry, reading article after posting the question lol)
EDIT: after reading the link I get its the crimp style and the more crimps per lug, the better. I'm a believer, just haven't tested because it's not the standard practice in my industry so hard to bring to the table.

I have been eyeballing those crimpers a while for my installers, Like the way they crimp in what looks like 3 locations and more a compression than a basic smash crimp. That slip on seal is kind of cool listed on Amazon. Beware of the wire range tho, only up to #12. Assuming they have a replaceable die for #10 and larger?
EDIT: per Amazon, another crimper available with additional sizes. $150 a pop, it wont be something most here consider.

Some places to purchase:
Graybar, Grainger, Fastenal, Mouser and many more. Graybar/ Grainger also good sources for wire. List 2 cable a great fit for auto.

Manufactures:
Thomas & Betts, Burndy, TE connectivity(huge automotive plug supplier), Panduit, Mouser (may do direct buy and some really cool one off connectors) and likely many more

Most these are telecom/ welding associated but a lug doesn't care what its going on and most are treated for oxidation (one other thing to prep connections for not mentioned)

 

[jellis]

Wire quality is a very good point, I try to use SAE J1128 which is vehicle spec for 60V or less......anyone know any other specs that are applicable?

 

[ProjectsNMotion]

We recently switched to using only closed-barrel terminals (from the open barrel type) for connectors that get cycled (taken on and off)

This is the part that I think most people will overlook. Closed barrel terminals are objectively the best mechanical termination for connectors that are cycled. The barrier for entry with closed barrel terminals will be the up front cost of the tooling. For connectors that are only rarely disconnected and reconnected, open barrel connectors are just about as good.

Crimping and soldering have similar electrical performance, but crimping is a substantially better mechanical bond. The most important factor though is the quality of the installation; A good quality solder joint is better than a poor quality crimp.

Cheers

 

[White Stripe]

I prefer wire nuts for everything. No need for fancy crimper or connectors. Just untwist if you need to remove. Not sure why Toyota didn't do it from the factory. If anyone wants me to rewire your personal vehicle completely with wire nuts let me know. I won't charge too much.

 

[White Stripe]

I'm joking BTW.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

I prefer wire nuts for everything. No need for fancy crimper or connectors. Just untwist if you need to remove. Not sure why Toyota didn't do it from the factory. If anyone wants me to rewire your personal vehicle completely with wire nuts let me know. I won't charge too much.



View attachment 2616445

Lol, your just looking for a fight aren't you?


Flagpole at 3:30.......

 

[jellis]

For connectors that are only rarely disconnected and reconnected, open barrel connectors are just about as good.

@ProjectsNMotion what do you define as "rarely"? To me the connectors in our application would have cycles measured in <4 per year, no?

 

[thatcabledude]

I prefer wire nuts for everything. No need for fancy crimper or connectors. Just untwist if you need to remove. Not sure why Toyota didn't do it from the factory. If anyone wants me to rewire your personal vehicle completely with wire nuts let me know. I won't charge too much.



View attachment 2616445

 

[Njck22]

You guys are making it too complicated. Just twist them together and use strips of scotch tape. That’s how the audio guys at bestbuy do it so you know its the real deal.

 

[jonheld]

Like everything else, there is no "black and white" answer.
Proper soldering requires a proper technique and practice, so it is more often than not cheaper and more cost effective to crimp. Especially in a manufacturing environment.

I have soldered every permanent connection I have made on every vehicle, but it's what I do for a living and have done since the early 1980s.

 

[Delta VS]

While soldering can indeed make for very nice connections, no doubts about that at all, the feeling in our house is pretty strong that there are very few soldered connections in vehicles, and this is due to vibration. A proper crimp goes a very long ways in preserving wires and their connections.

Interesting article that opened my eyes to the importance of quality connections. I’ll be installing your Switch Pro mount soon. The crimper shown above is for pin connectors, which I’ve never seen or used. @Delta VS, what type of connector and crimper do you suggest for this installation?

for those kind of ring terminals, we use the standard Snap-on crimper, PN 29CF.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

While soldering can indeed make for very nice connections, no doubts about that at all, the feeling in our house is pretty strong that there are very few soldered connections in vehicles, and this is due to vibration. A proper crimp goes a very long ways in preserving wires and their connections.


for those kind of ring terminals, we use the standard Snap-on crimper, PN 29CF.

That is an interesting way to look at it, I never thought about vibrations and solder longevity. I always figured there were so few soldered connections in vehicles because the auto makers were trying to save money. It seems it would be cheaper to mass produce wiring harness that plug together instead of paying people to solder everything.

I also have always wondered why everything on boats is supposed to be soldered. Maybe this is total BS, but I have heard that it is illegal for any boat on the ocean to have butt connectors.

I used to run a Snap On truck for a franchisee owner. I sold a lot of those 29cf's but the wire crimper tool I sold the most of was this pair.

 

[SmokingRocks]

Like everything else, there is no "black and white" answer.
Proper soldering requires a proper technique and practice, so it is more often than not cheaper and more cost-effective to crimp. Especially in a manufacturing environment.

I have soldered every permanent connection I have made on every vehicle, but it's what I do for a living and have done since the early 1980s.

I am in the same boat. I solder all my permanent connections on my vehicles and those I've worked on. Over the years I've heard this "crimp is superior to solder" argument over and over again. I just don;t really give it credence anymore. Why? because over the years I've had to troubleshoot and repair thousands or problems due to failed crimp connections, I have YET to do the same for a properly soldered connection. NONE of my soldered connections have come back to me needing fixed. Further, I have YET to repair ANY soldered connection, however, I have found faulty OEM grounds at factory crimped locations.

The 'vibration' argument is ridiculous, if your wiring harness is jiggling around that much you've done other things wrong. Additionally, vibration affects the wire core negatively as well, I've come across a broken factory ground at a crimp location within the loom because it had broken out of the crimp.

Is a properly crimped connection technically better? yes, is it practically better? In my experience no. OEM's do it because it's fast, cheap, and effective. Likewise the military specs it because it's fast, cheap, and effective. Think about the lifespan of a vehicle in the military, it's much like a fire department, vehicles get cycled out frequently and you rarely see a vehicle that's 8+ years old. Unless you're in the marines or reserve. And just ask them how much time is spent maintaining them at that point...

I've spent enough time tracking down issues caused by aftermarket crimps to never want to put them back in my vehicle. (Other than crimping terminals for connectors or batteries)

At the end of the day, it's up to you. Both connection types are just fine and, ultimately, the quality of either connection comes down to the skill of the installer and the products used. So make sure that whichever direction you choose that you learn to do it right.

 

[Feldrian]

That is an interesting way to look at it, I never thought about vibrations and solder longevity. I always figured there were so few soldered connections in vehicles because the auto makers were trying to save money. It seems it would be cheaper to mass produce wiring harness that plug together instead of paying people to solder everything.

I also have always wondered why everything on boats is supposed to be soldered. Maybe this is total BS, but I have heard that it is illegal for any boat on the ocean to have butt connectors.

I used to run a Snap On truck for a franchisee owner. I sold a lot of those 29cf's but the wire crimper tool I sold the most of was this pair.

IIRC the aversion to but connectors for marine applications is corrosion and connection degradation, not so much a connector cycling or vibration concern.