timing problem-4.3 TBI on 2f motor

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hey guys- been talking to white stripe, Downey, and trollhole, about this. trying to smooth out timing on tbi set-up. have fj60 dist., advance removed, stabbed it, ran routh, thought I was on wrong stroke so re-stabbed it, wouldn't run at all, so thought I was a tooth off. tried with rotor more towards front of engine, not good, so stabbed it with rotor somewhere between #4 and #5 plugs. it ran better than any other spot but still very rough. so I adjusted the guess you call it "air gap" to about .008. seems to run better. anyone know if that wheel needs to be almost touching pick-up inside dist.? also lost "at rest" position where theres no advance so been playing with that too. moving breaker plates little by little to see if it helps. seems like dist. is very touchy, never had a problem with points dist. I used to have. wired it up per painless and Downey's instructions and believe I have it right. computer not throwing any trouble codes, check engine light stays off when it is running. have the painless black and grey connectors for coil. on the ignition module, there's two 1/8 inch spade terminals, one has letter p which I ran to red wire on fj60 dist., the other has an n which I ran to white wire on dist. looked like that was how Downey showed it. its at least idling now, had to take a break. get back on it in a minute. only other thing, in painless harness theres 2 wires that go to starter, one red I ran to battery post, the other purple I ran to black and white wire on starter that goes to ignition switch. that leaves a red wire on starter that used to go to + side of coil, and im not using it, could find no info. on it. is it supposed to go somewhere? think I have purple wire right on starter. any answers on adjusting dist.? almost runs but nowhere near like it should. wonder if dist. may be no good. thanks for any help guys.
 
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well, its me again down here in Oklahoma, one that's having lots of trouble timing my new TBI set-up. I started it up again, ran rough like it has been, then I heard an electric spark. so I turned off lights in shop, got my flashlight and started it to see where spark was coming from, and its my coil wire sparking at the coil. wonder if that's been my problem? sure seems like it could be. going to auto zone for a coil wire and guess ill find out. sure hope so, be an easy fix.
 

Howard705

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It doesn't matter where or what tooth a distributor is installed on as long as it can be turned to get the correct timing. I'd start off adjusting it to where it runs best. These used to have a bypass wire to disconnect to put it into base timing while setting. I believe these used to set to "0" degrees.
 

Stumpalama

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Where is it sparking, from the boot to a stud on the coil? If that's the case, you are getting too much resistance from the wires, plugs or distributor causing the electricity to find another path to ground. Is your engine grounded?
 
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I've been burned by bad grounds so many times that I weld stainless bolts to the frame, and body, then bolt several straps to the engine block.

The other thing to check, I just had a 4.3 that was running rough. The cap was loose (more specifically, the screw was stripped to the plastic housing and the cap was loose).
 
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The red wire on your starter would be used for the resistor bypass and gives the coil extra voltage during cranking for cold days, this could be connected to coil+ but it is not required. Try hooking up a vacuum gauge to your brake booster, that helped me dial in my dizzy.
 
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man, I wish I didn't have to do so many posts, but I appreciate everyone's input. last go round, I saw my coil wire was sparking and was hoping that may have been the problem, but it didn't fix it. no matter how I adjust it, it does no good. plugs keep fouling, barely idles for very long. no codes on the check engine light. thinking coil may be bad, would that show up on codes? or a defective ignition module, or electronic spark control? I know auto zone has a gadget,[scanner?] that tells you things. would this tool tell me what sensors might be bad, or even if the dist. was bad? maybe its a diagnostic tool? something is wrong and I cant adjust it out of the distributor. don't want to just guess and start buying stuff hoping it will fix it. guess id have a bunch of spare parts then, huh? man, this is crazy and probably just a simple fix if I just knew where to look. ya'll think a scanner or whatever they're called would diagnose my problem? sure would make all this easier. thanks for all the help guys, this really is a good thing to be able to go to. once I get it all figured out, i'll be sure to share anything I found out about it. maybe someone will have the same problem. Happy Trails!
 

Mace

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Scanner won't help if you are not throwing codes.. The codes are what a scanner reports..


I have not seen all of your other posts, but are you still seeing sparking at your coil? That definitely needs to be addressed..
 

too tall

 
 
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Are you using the HEI Module ? I had experiences in the past where when I replaced the magnetic pickup in the distributor the actual pickup itself was wired backwards . The green and yellow wires coming from the magnetic coil were opposite of what they should be . Pontiac I think was the difference . Anyway is caused it to run really rough and I couldn't get it to stay stable enough to time it . IIRC I had to advance it way more than I thought just to get it to run . I switched the green and yellow wires from the pickup and all was well . Sounds like a distributor or timing issue regardless . Good luck
 

too tall

 
 
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Just read your other post . try switching the red and white wires from the dizzy ?
 
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Scanner won't help if you are not throwing codes.. The codes are what a scanner reports..


I have not seen all of your other posts, but are you still seeing sparking at your coil? That definitely needs to be addressed..
hey mace- thanks. I got a coil wire at auto zone last night but didn't fix the problem. check engine light stays off so I guess all sensors and modules are doing what they are supposed to so now im wondering if I just have a bad distributor, or if I made a mistake when I modified it[84 fj60 with vacuum advance removed]. I modified it like tom Quinn did his so I assume I should be ok on that part. my ESC module has a 4 pin connector, another 2pin conn. on same side, and a 2pin conn. with 1/8 inch spade terminals, one marked P which I ran to red wire on dist. and one marked N which I ran to white wire on dist. and that's the way Downey showed it on his instructions so im assuming that its right also. haven't checked red and white connectors at fj60 dist. guess I could cut off the connector and tie straight into the wires, that would eliminate the last thing I could think of, unless dist. is just no good. 4.3 TBI came from new old stock so don't think it could be that. something simple somewhere I bet, just hard to find it. thanks a lot for your help.
 
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Just read your other post . try switching the red and white wires from the dizzy ?
hey too tall- thanks. just went to shop and tried that and it wouldn't start. man, it acts like I have it stabbed wrong, but I think im right. when I did it, the rotor was pointing halfway between #4 and #5 plug on block and real close to #1 plug on cap. pretty sure I was on compression stroke. took out #1 plug, put in 1/4 inch fuel line and killed it right when it blew on my finger, then turned flywheel back to the timing mark. maybe flywheel could have already passed mark when it was on compression stroke and I got it 180 out, don't know how much flywheel turns in a short time. killed it immediately after it blew on my finger. it barely runs, like I stabbed it wrong but I don't see how I did that, maybe try to stab it again.
 
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could it be the efi computer? It has been calibrated for the 2f?

found this http://www.tomquinn.com/lc/2f_fi/
hey Curt- thanks. I wonder if I have a bad computer. had a friend who had a 78 jeep, ran bad, got a computer from auto zone, no luck, got one at o-reillys, no luck, got one at NAPA and it fired right up. mine is a 77-7747, remanufactured by cardone industries, so I don't know. all sensors and modules are new, no junk yard parts, cause I was trying to eliminate problems like this. sure acts like a distributor put in wrong or something. stabbed lots of point dist. and never had this problem. guess ill try to stab it again. may take off the valve cover this time. thanks a lot for your input.
 

Mace

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What happens when you adjust the dizzy?

Wait, you didn't re-burn the chip for a 2F did you?
 
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It doesn't matter where or what tooth a distributor is installed on as long as it can be turned to get the correct timing. I'd start off adjusting it to where it runs best. These used to have a bypass wire to disconnect to put it into base timing while setting. I believe these used to set to "0" degrees.
hey howard- thanks for your input. I cant turn dist. any way to smooth it out. no matter what I do, still runs real rough. barely runs at all. all I know to do is stab it again.
 
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Where is it sparking, from the boot to a stud on the coil? If that's the case, you are getting too much resistance from the wires, plugs or distributor causing the electricity to find another path to ground. Is your engine grounded?
hey stump- thanks for the reply. the spark was coming out of top of the boot on coil wire, but wire was really old and I went to auto zone and got new one. didn't fix anything. yes, I grounded engine , body, and frame pretty good I think. man, it acts like I stabbed it wrong, but I've done it 3 times. maybe i'll take valve cover off this time and try again. may have a bad dist. using a fj60 dist. with vacuum removed, per Downey's instructions with his TBI kit. new sensors, modules, and a remanufactured 7747 computer so I wouldn't have problems like this. wasn't expecting this at all.
 
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