Thumbs down for primer pump (1 Viewer)

[brownbear]

Ok I started by editting the title. If anyone feels any comments are outta line PM me.

It is tech to some part, but I may kick the whole thing to chat if the feel is slamming of a vendor. We want that sorta stuff in chat..

I have a bosch as I said. No fn need to "stow" it. Just push it when you need it and be done. Screw in ones are silly....IMOP.

 

[lshobie]

Good call. Oh, and never been called self righteous before, first time for everything eh - lol.

 

[lostmarbles]

Reading this thread properly will prove I'm not slamming the vendor.

And I'm picking that any intelligent vendor viewing this will be able to see that they can learn from this experience (assuming of course that the thread comes to their notice). (And an honest vendor should appreciate this "education" too.)

This photo here shows the only identification that was on my pump:



Now if the product or its packaging had said "Nevaleek 654", then my thread would have been titled "Thumbs down for the Nevaleek 654 primer pump". And I would have seen no need to even mention the vendor's name (provided they marketed the pump clearly under the "Nevaleek" branding).

I strongly disagree with this becoming a vendor-controlled site.

Cheers
Tom

 

[lostmarbles]

Right. For heavens sake - Let's move on to more tech.

I'm not going to send any PMs to moderators here but I have had a nice PM from another NZ MUD member offering me a free primer pump. And in discussing his generous offer with him - I've had to take a few measurements.

So here's some photos of those measurement because they're likely to be of use to others here (besides just the two of us).

Firstly - This is my original ex-factory primer pump 22501-77021

The thread is M16 x 1.5:

 

[lostmarbles]

The overal stowed-length is 79mm



And the extended-length is 103mm



Oh - And I didn't photograph it but the body diameter (excluding the knob) is 26mm

 

[Moe R]

Is that black thing under the whitish knob supposta be some sort of seal when twisted to the closed position? Looks like a pretty light weight design especally when compaired to the bosch and that's a mere visual comparison from the pic's here.

 

[lostmarbles]

Is that black thing under the whitish knob supposta be some sort of seal when twisted to the closed position? Looks like a pretty light weight design especally when compaired to the bosch and that's a mere visual comparison from the pic's here.

Yep. That's a seal alright. I suspect there is also an O-ring internally that seals against the plastic plunger (and that it is wear on this O-ring that causes the leakage problem associated with these Toyota OEM primer pumps). Here's a better picture:



And here's one from the manual showing how there is a check valve (7) directly under the pump:



And here is a view of the underneath of the pump showing where the check valve spring sits:

 

[lostmarbles]

Yes - I've been very naiive.

In light of the number of "you should go back to your supplier" posts that I've received from this thread (accompanied by either the "open suggestion" or "underlying suggestion" that I've behaved poorly) - I decided to contact the vendor and alert them to all of this myself. Here are both my message to them and their reply:
(Sorry - but I've had to type/copy it all cos I can't figure how to copy an Email into here.)

My email to vendor:
"I started a thread on ih8mud.com about my experience with your primer pump. Here is the link: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/220562-thumbs-down-primer-pump.html
Some people obviously think I have behaved badly towards you. I disagree. But I thought - considering the commotion - that I should inform you myself of the thread.
Please tell me if I am no longer welcome as a customer.
Cheers Tom"

Vendor reply:
"G'day Tom, it probably would have been courteous to contact us first as we do stand behind the products we sell and most items have a 12 months manufacturers warrenty including those primers. i have checked our sales history of these and we have had no returns or claims on them for any reported faults in the last 12 months so can only assume yours is a one of faulty item or for all we know damaged during fitment but in either case as it is an international transaction if you provide us with the invoice number the primer was supplied on we will issue a full refund including shipping costs.
we source parts direct from manufacturers in 14 countries around the world and have thousands of items we purchase so yes occasionally we get a product that is not up to scratch and when this happens we have it resolved by the manufacturer or return all our stock and take it off sale until another supplier/product is sourced.
i would appreciate you putting this reply by us on your thread and emailing to me when done and more than happy to help you with any other products you need, kind regards - Neil Lowerson - Director"

I repeat - This is a handtyped copy of the correspondence so my apoligies if there are mino typos. (They're more than likely my mistakes.)

See I told you Roodogs were "good guys to deal with".

But this thing has forced me to rethink how I use of MUD (and my perception of it). I'm going to go back over all the threads I've started and try to remove all references I've made that identify the vendors. I feel that it is simply not fair that positive comments on vendor products are accepted without question while negative comments achieve the type/volume of reactions that I got here.

I have no complaints about Roodogs as a supplier and never have had!!!!!!!!



Edit - Nov 09 - I did go ahead and remove vendor and product-brand names from my posts. But then later - after this commotion had died down - and after realising that I did indeed have a lot of support for my opinion that MUD should never become "vendor-censored" - I reinstated them.

 

[roscoFJ73]

But this thing has forced me to rethink how I use of MUD (and my perception of it). I'm going to go back over all the threads I've started and try to remove all references I've made that identify the vendors. I feel that it is simply not fair that positive comments on vendor products are accepted without question while negative comments achieve the type/volume of reactions that I got here.

I have no complaints about Roodogs as a supplier and never have had!!!!!!!!

Good job but dont take it too seriously. With positive comments its different because everyone is happy.
I have always supported Roodogs because his prices and service have always been topnotch when Ive been a customer.

I have also seen friends of vendors unashamably attack those with genuine complaints on other LC forums.
I also considered joining a 4wd club once and noticed the leading luminaries constantly pushed a certain spare parts dealer.
It was pretty obvious they got a good discount while the other poor slobs paid for it

 

[joshoisasleep]

I still think it was important to say where it came from. Whether it's good etiquette or not, the point is two people had the same issue and I wouldn't know to avoid it for my new primer pump if it wasn't for this thread. There's no vendor slamming here, it's just the only way to identify the point.

In fact I actually WENT to their site for the first time and looked through their catalog as a result of this thread and the unsatisfied customer's otherwise positive opinion of the company.

 

[canucksafari]

Their web site is an ebay store font. Negative comments are one of the first thing I look for with any e-bay vendor in addition to how long they have been around.

I always figure you should give a company or a person a chance to make things right before bad mouthing them or what they sell. If you still are not satisfied after this then post away. IMO that's fair play.

 

[rchalmers3]

But this thing has forced me to rethink how I use of MUD (and my perception of it). I'm going to go back over all the threads I've started and try to remove all references I've made that identify the vendors. I feel that it is simply not fair that positive comments on vendor products are accepted without question while negative comments achieve the type/volume of reactions that I got here.

Mr. Marbles,

I respectfully submit that it's not the vendors names you have mentioned that are the problem, so don't bother re-writing your 1500 some odd posts!

The issue is that you didn't seperate your tech issue and vendor questions.

You tried to be respectful of the vendor, but not giving them a chance to respond to the issue first lacks integrity. We mudders called you out on this point only: On your lack of communication with the vendor!

Bringing your tech issue here first is fine if you address the tech problem and leave the vendor part out till you take it up with them.

There's nothing to rethink about your preceptions or how to use MUD. Your contributions are solid and I thank you for your participation and look forward to your solution for the leaking primer pump.

Rick

 

[BillyGHusk]

I guess I am in the minority on this issues. At no point did Tom(Lostmarbles) call out the vendor or run them down.

He pointed out that the primer pump they sold him was/is bad.

That point doesn't change even if he were to contact them. Even if they replaced the pump at no charge. The fact that the pump went bad fairly quickly (relative term) doesn't change.

If his posts had been along the vein of:

I bought this pump and am getting no customer service from them even though I haven't ask for any.....

Then I would understand the uproar. He went out of his way to ask for positive experiences relating to the product in question, which nobody has posted good experience with said product yet.

Now that he has contacted Roodog and they have stated they will refund his money plus shipping....THE PUMP STILL WENT BAD....which was the point of the thread.....

tech content....when I changed my pump the the Bosch I had to use a pair of vise grips on the old one as I couldn't get a wrench on the nut....

 

[amaurer]

Now that he has contacted Roodog and they have stated they will refund his money plus shipping....THE PUMP STILL WENT BAD....which was the point of the thread.....

x2

 

[Dougal]

I guess I am in the minority on this issues. At no point did Tom(Lostmarbles) call out the vendor or run them down.

He pointed out that the primer pump they sold him was/is bad.

That point doesn't change even if he were to contact them. Even if they replaced the pump at no charge. The fact that the pump went bad fairly quickly (relative term) doesn't change.

If his posts had been along the vein of:

I bought this pump and am getting no customer service from them even though I haven't ask for any.....

Then I would understand the uproar. He went out of his way to ask for positive experiences relating to the product in question, which nobody has posted good experience with said product yet.

Now that he has contacted Roodog and they have stated they will refund his money plus shipping....THE PUMP STILL WENT BAD....which was the point of the thread.....

tech content....when I changed my pump the the Bosch I had to use a pair of vise grips on the old one as I couldn't get a wrench on the nut....

These are very close to my sentiments also. Maybe there was some early editing which I missed, but I don't see a problem with this thread or Tom's desire to post his experience.

It is a concern that posters are pressured when posting up legitimate concerns and experiences that are not positive. Especially when the opposite is openly encouraged.
For feedback systems to work, it must be possible to relay negative experiences as well as positive. Otherwise the system loses all value. The Ebay and locally trademe feedback systems have lost value due to this.

The ultimate test of a products value is; given the same choices again, would you buy this product.
For Tom, that seems to be a "no" and we should learn why.

 

[lostmarbles]

Thanks folks!

What's happened here SHOULD cause a furore. And I can't understand why the majority of ordinary cruiserheads out there (those without vending interests) have abstained from voicing their concerns.

I think it is fair to say that most people on this site live in countries where "freedom of speech" is valued. Yet so many people seem happy with the idea that we (the ordinary cruiserheads that form the basis of ih8mud) should NOT be able to freely discuss the products we install on our cruisers.

Perhaps it was the threat by Brownbear to throw this thread into chat for "vendor slamming"? (And people don't want to be seen as "upsetting the ih8mud administrators"?)

Clearly I was "product slamming" and not "vendor slamming".

Now in this case the vendor chose to stock an unbranded item so the only way for me to identify it was through using the vendor's name. (Shouldn't a vendor realise that if they stock an unbranded product they are likely to get tainted when it turns out to be faulty?)

The whole process of "go back to the vendor first" is about protecting the vendors interests by keeping news of faulty products away from the ears of other potential purchasers.

I've been posting on mud with REAL ENTHUSIAM because I felt I was able to help others who are just like myself. I strongly resent my threads being used as bait to lure innocent victims into a web of "vendor-spiders". (I wouldn't place myself up on the same level as them but I wonder how mudders I really admire like "M5driver" and "Henry James the 47th" feel. If M5driver finds his Rustbullet peels off the frame no matter how well it is applied - Shouldn't he be allowed to tell you so without incurring the wrath of those with the "sort it out behind closed doors with the supplier first" attitude?!!)

If I was happy luring victims into vendor-webs I'd try to become a contributor to that dominant Aussi 4WD magazine. Then if I succeeded at least I'd get paid in the process .

In retrospect, I now feel I was wrong to contact Roodogs over this. And I was also wrong to go back over my threads trying to remove most of the vendor details and brandnames.

Hey. Just thinking off to one side..... I wonder why it is that there are seldom objections when people attack Toyota salesmen, SOR (commonly referred to as $OR) etc. Clearly some targets are acceptable to MUD even when people decide to slam vendors directly.

And I'm starting to notice that some people on MUD give lots of advice and purport to be cruiserheads - yet I don't see them ask questions of their own or show off their own cruisers. That's interesting to me now where I hadn't even noticed before! But hang on...... I'm becoming paranoid..... (And I am Lostmarbles.)

So I now see that I've got just two choices:

1. Withdraw permanently from MUD as a contributor (and ask the administrators to remove all the threads I have started), or
2. Continue as I was (if I can - now that I know my views upset so many people that I had respected) with everyone knowing that I WILL REPEAT what I set out to do in this thread - as and when the need arises.

Meanwhile I'm taking a break from starting new threads and from general posting till I suss out what to do.

"Time" tends to make one's position clearer.

 

[roscoFJ73]

You are making a mountian out of a mole hill. Move on and keep posting

 

[canucksafari]

You are making a mountian out of a mole hill. Move on and keep posting

X2 I lost a lot more money than the price of a single primer pump. I argued with the service provider. When i didn't get satisfaction, I then posted a warning about my experience. Said, done and over - only to be repeated if someone asks for advise about that type of service. Let's get back to diesel tech.

 

[lshobie]

You think you are having a bad day - check out these guys:

YouTube - Real Car Crash

 

[Moe R]

Clearly I was "product slamming" and not "vendor slamming".

Personally, this is why I had no responce to this post. I gathered the info and figured I learned a lesson at Tom's unfortunate experience and possible expence. I can't figure why so many panties got wet:whoops:Oh yea, time to get back to biz