Throttle body injection? (1 Viewer)

[benw4x4]

I was wondering how many of you have put throttle body injection on your 2F? I have a weber and have been thinking about changing it out. I don't know anyone who has had it for a while to find out the long term result of it. I know there are threads about this but no real reviews. Any input would be great.

Thanks
Ben

 

[Tinker]

PM 84Cruiser - he's a real mechanic who's made the GM throttle body work extremely well. Also, he's near Telluride.

 

[1911]

FYI, there are a fair number of threads on this in the 40-45 Series section also.

 

[lehiguy]

Holler if the Weber comes off, I know where it can be of good use...

 

[benw4x4]

I have been looking around and talked with some people. I have decided that I am not going fuel injection, most of the people I have talked with say it does not work well during the winter and the ecu has lots of programing issues. Also it is just a gm throttle body fitted to a cruiser. I don't like the idea of gm parts on a toyota. My rig has 420 thousand miles and is reliable. Gm parts are not. Mixing the two seems like a good way to be stuck trying to figure out where to get parts from. I think I will wait and do a 3fe head or engine later.
Thanks

Ben

 

[lehiguy]

I have been looking around and talked with some people. I have decided that I am not going fuel injection, most of the people I have talked with say it does not work well during the winter and the ecu has lots of programing issues. Also it is just a gm throttle body fitted to a cruiser. I don't like the idea of gm parts on a toyota. My rig has 420 thousand miles and is reliable. Gm parts are not. Mixing the two seems like a good way to be stuck trying to figure out where to get parts from. I think I will wait and do a 3fe head or engine later.
Thanks

Ben

Don't kid yourself, the GM throttle body stuff is as indestrucable as anything ever made and much more ubiquitous than any Toyota parts ever were or will be. Where do you think the 2F originated anyway? And the similarities between the Toyota four-speed and an SM-420 are just pure chance? You're already driving GM, you just don't know it.

 

[lehiguy]

Ok, I read my own previous post and I sound like an a$$. Sorry. That wasn't intentional, just trying to make a point. About what you mentioned, poor driveability in the cold, programming issues, etc. If the rig were to run poorly in the cold, it would be for one of two reasons; poor mixture (programming) or no heat to the intake manifold. With the stock manifolds, its not an issue. With a header, a fluid heat riser should be used for cold climates. It stands to reason that if it ran poorly with TBI, it would run worse with a carb in the same conditions. The programming thing is so simple, it really is a non-issue. Win ALDL can be downloaded for free and datalogging can be accomplished with any laptop that will run the program. My 350 got a highly modded TBI system last year after years with a carb. There were multiple refinements in the programming, but it isn't hard to do if you get somebody to help you, like Brian at TBIchips.com who did mine. That way, it's tuned PERFECTLY to YOUR engine; guesswork is gone and the fun begins. I have to say, the power curve is greatly enhanced and it's a blast to drive. I do think that the GM TBI stuff is supremely reliable and parts are, quite literally, everywhere.

 

[MutleyFJ62]

Have you thought about using the Holley ProJection setup? Not seen it used on a 6 cyl but have set up 5 so far on Ford V8's with good results.

 

[benw4x4]

I am sure that they do work well, but I think that putting in a 3FE head or engine seems like a better choice. Being where I live getting replacement parts is not always easy or fast. We have a good toyota shop in town that make it easy to replace parts. I guess that I have some reservations about GM parts due to the fact that I am not a fan of domestic cars. The 3FE seems to be the easy and fast option because it is set up for a land cruiser. The 2F is not powerful or fast but I have yet to have an issue that can not be resolved in a afternoon.

 

[Trollhole]

Ok, I read my own previous post and I sound like an a$$. Sorry. That wasn't intentional, just trying to make a point. About what you mentioned, poor driveability in the cold, programming issues, etc. If the rig were to run poorly in the cold, it would be for one of two reasons; poor mixture (programming) or no heat to the intake manifold. With the stock manifolds, its not an issue. With a header, a fluid heat riser should be used for cold climates. It stands to reason that if it ran poorly with TBI, it would run worse with a carb in the same conditions. The programming thing is so simple, it really is a non-issue. Win ALDL can be downloaded for free and datalogging can be accomplished with any laptop that will run the program. My 350 got a highly modded TBI system last year after years with a carb. There were multiple refinements in the programming, but it isn't hard to do if you get somebody to help you, like Brian at TBIchips.com who did mine. That way, it's tuned PERFECTLY to YOUR engine; guesswork is gone and the fun begins. I have to say, the power curve is greatly enhanced and it's a blast to drive. I do think that the GM TBI stuff is supremely reliable and parts are, quite literally, everywhere.

Well said. I've had no issues going out and starting the cruiser within 2 seconds of turning the key. No pedal, no choke. Just turn key, start and drive. I don't have any heat riser. The computer knows what it needs to do when it's cold. SO far though in SC I've only been able to try starting it in 15 degree weather. No sub zero temps. I couldn't imagine it wouldn't perform though.

As far as the programming and learning. It's not that easy. But once you get the understanding of what is going on it is really easy.

Have you thought about using the Holley ProJection setup? Not seen it used on a 6 cyl but have set up 5 so far on Ford V8's with good results.

I've never had a chance to use or tune a Holly projection but from all the post I've seen on Mud and other forums about them your best to stay away from them. I've never heard one good thing about them.

I am sure that they do work well, but I think that putting in a 3FE head or engine seems like a better choice. Being where I live getting replacement parts is not always easy or fast. We have a good toyota shop in town that make it easy to replace parts. I guess that I have some reservations about GM parts due to the fact that I am not a fan of domestic cars. The 3FE seems to be the easy and fast option because it is set up for a land cruiser. The 2F is not powerful or fast but I have yet to have an issue that can not be resolved in a afternoon.

There is nothing easy of fast about doing a EFI conversion. There are only a handful of people that have done the 2fe conversion. Documentation is not great and you will be venturing out into an unknown. TBI has been done for years and is well documented. Granted even it isn't perfect as I've seen so many setups configured so many ways it really is a crap shoot to get a good solid conversion. But if you get it right and get it chipped correctly it will put a smile on your face.

My biggest drawback for the 2fe conversion is the fact the stock ECU is not programable. I think there is a lot of HP left that is waiting to get out with the right conversion. Once you master a TBI install and can tune on your own the next for me would be that conversion. Since the TBI ECU and the later TPI ECU are not that different.

If I were going to reccomend someone to buy a kit from it would be Affordable Fuel Injection. They really have a nice system and a chip that provides good performance.



And as far as the 2f not being fast or powerful. I beg to differ. YouTube - Big Gay 2F

 

[Yspen]

Cannot figure out why nobody has advised to ditch the Weber and put Aisin Carb back in . ( or one of Marshall's carbs - see above ) .
I would do that first and then go GM TBi if it is still needed .

 

[benw4x4]

My aisin carb worked great for a long time. I started having internal issues and would go between lean and rich going down the road. I rebuilt it, worked ok for a while then the issue came back. I sent it out and had it rebuilt. Same issue came back. I looked around for a carb but could not find a good one. So after some checking around I called up and got a weber. I is a great carb and I have had no real issues. A shop that I worked at had been selling a fitting these for years. So it was very easy to get mine set up and tuned. I have never had any offroad issues with it either. I moved and need to jet it down so I thought I would look into fuel injection. I am putting in a 2f with alot less miles than mine and thought if I was going to change my set up that would be the best time to do it. As far as slow I was talking about interstate speed. In that regard I have 33's, 4.11's and a low range kit in the transfer case. So when I was on the road last weekend going to get my engine at about 2900 rpm I was doing 67 mph. Which is not to bad considering the cruiser was loaded with the family and dog. And enough stuff for four days. The trailer had my spare and other stuff on the way there and an engine on the way back. The weber did fine. I got about 13.5 mpg. Not great but that is alot of weight for a tired engine. And having to go over vail and Eisenhower. So the weber is not a bad thing and if I could find a stock carb that was not expensive I may throw it on.