Third Member Swap - DENIED!!!

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by PabloCruise, Jun 18, 2005.

  1. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Dammit!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

    So I was getting ready to swap out my rear third member w/ a front third I got from a 1969 40...

    I was doing some reading in the FSM before hand and came up with these conclusions regarding pre-load: (originally posted here)

    The FSM has you set up the drive pinion and measure pinion preload. I believe at this point the ring gear and carrier are not present in the third member.

    The FSM states:
    Specified Preload (starting)
    New Bearing 16.5-22.6 in-lb
    Reused Bearing 7.8-11.3 in-lb

    Then you keep going, put the ring gear on the carrier and install that. Then set your side bearing preload. Then you measure the overall preload.

    I just got the issue that was hanging me up...

    The FSM states:
    Specified Preload (starting)
    (For both new and reused bearing) 3.5-5.2 in-lb + DRIVE PINION PRELOAD.

    I kept missing the + DRIVE PINION PRELOAD part and wondering how the hell the overall preload part could be less than the drive pinion preload.

    It sounds like you can evaluate a third member with ring gear carrier installed by giving the pinion a spin and the acceptable range of starting preload could be as low as 11.3 in-lbs OR as high as 27.8 in-lbs?

    I tried my replacement third with a inch-lbs torque wrench - got about 5 in-lbs...

    I tore into it and this is what I saw...
    895F.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2005
  2. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    So what size shim do I need?

    Toyota sells 'em in 0.005 increments, starting at 0.025.

    Can I just measure the two together and go a touch thinner if I need more preload?
     
  3. nuclearlemon

    nuclearlemon not an addict Moderator

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    are you just swapping the r&p? or the whole third member? for whole third member, i just readjust the backlash to something that doesn't resemble half worn out and bolt in. shouldn't have to do preload unless your doing r &p or replacing bearings.
     
  4. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Thanks Ige,

    I have to swap flanges...

    This how I fuqed up mine, I replaced the seal and then re-torqued my flange and that one feels like junk now.

    So I have to shim it right or when I torque my flange on I'll get the same thing - correct?
     
  5. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Sorry, to answer your quest - swapping the entire third - just need correct flange.
     
  6. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

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    It looks like an extreme example of a "spun" shim pack. The two shims in the picture are the thin type. They are all the same thickness (0.25 mm or .0098 inch) and there can be 0-4 total. The preload is set by the thicker "preload washer" which come in 9 different sizes from 2.75 - 3.0 mm. Start by replacing the thin washers and then check the preload. If it is too tight, you will need a thicker preload washer. If it is too low, you can sand down the washer you have to get it in the right range. The FSM has all the part numbers for the shims and washers.
     
  7. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Pin Head, do you mean replace the 2 thin shims?

    Sounds like a good place to start.

    Thanks!
     
  8. 1Fine40

    1Fine40 Rust Buster SILVER Star

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    Check out Charlie Glabe's excellent R&P set up article in the Tech section.....an absolute MUST READ for anybody doing their own differential/gear work. His article is very informative.....Cheers!
     
  9. Ian Rogers

    Ian Rogers

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    AKA Pin_Head
     
  10. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Did not know that!!!
     
  11. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

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    Yes, replace the thin shims and try it. The shims go first and then the washer then the flange.
     
  12. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    ???

    When I took it apart, the shims were on top of the washer...

    Could this contribute to the shims spinning?

    :confused:

    Thanks Charlie
     
  13. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    I want to make sure I get this right the first time...

    The FSM manual illustration makes it look like it goes washer first, then shims, then bearing, slinger, then flange?
    pinion-shim-resize.jpg
     
  14. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

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    The FSM is amost always correct.
     
  15. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    "almost always"?

    So I take it you are verifying your previous statement:

    Thanks,
     
  16. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

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    No, I would go by what the FSM shows. I don't remember, but I did use the FSM. There are only a couple of errors in the manual and most are just typos
     
  17. 2badfjs

    2badfjs

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    monday a.m. just saw your post

    :frown:
    man that blows, were you able to finish it up?
    or did toyota have to order your shim?

    sorry for the bunk third TJ.

    jim
     
  18. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Dude - not at all, I think it is more common than I thought.

    Could not finish - I'll get shims, don't want to fuq this one up. I am learning all kinds of cool things about pinion preload!!! Randy's Ring and Pinion has some cool tech articles.

    The thing feels great when you turn it by hand.
    Everything looks great too! Hot tank cleaned everything up nicely.

    I had to go in there anyway to swap flanges and thought I better check after my last fiasco when I did not investigate.

    Getting shims in this week - should have them in time to get after it this weekend!
     
  19. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Evaluating third members

    Theo refined my logic a little bit int he other post - copying here for future searchers...

     
  20. 2badfjs

    2badfjs

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    get it done

    and come do holy cross in july...
    it'll be my first time on holy cross ;)
     
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