The Overland Tractor - '93 Beige Metallic 6BT/NV4500 (1 Viewer)

[Will Van]

I am starting this build thread to document my 6BT/NV4500 swap into my 3x locked 1993 beige metallic FZJ80.

I am just wrapping up a bunch of preventative maintenance on the 1FZ-FE, and I've decided to go ahead and start collecting parts for my Cummins 5.9 6BT swap (while I enjoy the fruits of my preventative maintenance labor). Basically, drive the crap out of my 1FZ-FE and take my time putting my 6BT/NV4500 build together. Then hopefully be able to move quickly once I pull the 1FZ-FE and start the swap.


Rather than high-jack another member's 6BT build thread, I created my own thread to document the process, ask questions, and pitch ideas.

I purchased a basic swap kit from a reputable vendor that I actually believe will deliver my parts. I hope to have the transmission to transfer case plate, engine mounts, trans mount, wiring harness, A/C lines, throttle bracket, and a few misc items delivered over the next few weeks.

I'm still shopping for a Cummins 5.9 12 valve with p-pump, and an NV4500 HD trans.

I also purchased a new 2WD Dodge output shaft to machine to the Toyota 19-spline t-case input (no spud-shaft here!).

Similar to this...

NV4500 to HF2AV Open Source Adapter Plans

 

[Will Van]

Most of the swaps I have seen use the Duiser/Diesel Adapters kit, which mounts the A/C up high, and the alternator down below. My kit mounts the alternator and A/C compressor in their stock Dodge locations, and uses the stock Dodge water-neck (no leaks!).

Why is this significant? The Dodge alternator is externally regulated. But the OEM Toyota alternator is internally regulated. So most people just swap the guts out of their Toyota alternator into the Dodge alternator case. Seems pretty simple. But if you ever have alternator trouble while traveling or on the trail, you're trying to swap the guts out of a Toyota alternator into a Dodge alternator. Not the simplest of tasks.

Because my kit mounts the alternator in the stock Dodge location, there a a ton of options for other alternators, since there is a large market for swapping 5.9 Cummins' into Fords and Chevys. Basically, you can buy a cheap alternator adapter mount, and use a Ford (internally regulated, 3-wire 8-rib) alternator. After a little wiring it's just plug and play. That way if you have a problem, you just go buy a regular Ford alternator available at every NAPA in the country. And they have a 215 amp "ambulance package" optional alternator!

Ford 7.3, 6.0, & 6.4 diesel Alternator Bracket for 1989-1998 12-Valve Cummins

More to come soon!

 

[cjmoon]

I like your plan. But just stick with all dodge stuff plain and simple. There are cheap external regulators all over the place. I looked at doing the Toyota reg swapover but they are expensive if I ever needed one.

 

[Will Van]

I like your plan. But just stick with all dodge stuff plain and simple. There are cheap external regulators all over the place. I looked at doing the Toyota reg swapover but they are expensive if I ever needed one.

What advantage does a Dodge alternator with a cheap external regulator have over a Ford alternator?

I’m just thinking, if I’m ever stranded somewhere, it will be easier to find a Ford diesel alternator than it will be to find an external regulator. As long as I’ve got the wiring harness correct, it should be plug and play with a new Ford alternator.

 

[baldilocks]

Just carry a spare regulator. That’s what I did while wheeling a 78 ramcharger for 15 years.

Another good thing about an externally regulated alternator is that you can set it up to weld directly off the alternator.

 

[Will Van]

I went to look at a motor and trans today. Engine is a 12-valve p-pump 5.9 out of a 1996 truck with 240k miles. It's an automatic.

The NV4500 is out of a 1997.

Seller is asking $3,500 for both the engine and trans. He will include the clutch, flywheel, bolts, etc. to be able to mate the auto engine to the NV4500.



What do you guys think? That price seems pretty fair to me.

 

[cody c]

Do it!


BTW I have the dodge alt, and a spare external regulator. Easy peasy, just make sure the body of the regulator is bolted to metal, the body needs to be grounded to work. The nice thing is troubleshooting with an external regulator is simpler, and I would guess replacement costs of individual components to be less.

One thing, if you have to clock the starter for the bellhousing, make sure you redrill the drain on the bottom of it... River crossings and a few starter rebuilds later I figured that one out by myself.

 

[Will Van]

Do it!


BTW I have the dodge alt, and a spare external regulator. Easy peasy, just make sure the body of the regulator is bolted to metal, the body needs to be grounded to work. The nice thing is troubleshooting with an external regulator is simpler, and I would guess replacement costs of individual components to be less.

One thing, if you have to clock the starter for the bellhousing, make sure you redrill the drain on the bottom of it... River crossings and a few starter rebuilds later I figured that one out by myself.

I put the deposit down so he would go ahead and pull the motor. I'm still vacillating on the alternator. I like the idea of a plug-and-play Ford alternator.

Is re-clocking the starter for the bellhousing a common modification?

 

[cody c]

Don't know if it's common, but I had to do that on mine. May have been a 91 6bt vs. 97 NV4500 scenario though.

 

[cody c]

I still haven't ordered those adapter plates, to be honest I've been stalling a bit as I think I may do a simple one off plate and chop my NV4500 adapter spud shaft, I should probably piss or get off the pot though so you other fellas can move forward.

 

[Will Van]

Really excited!!! Picked up my engine and transmission this morning! Needs some cleaning and TLC, but runs good and no blow-by.

Motor is a 1996 12-valve out of a 2WD automatic. 247k on the odometer. NV4500 came out of a 1997 4WD and seller included clutch and flywheel. Unknown mileage but I'll probably rebuild it and upgrade to a South Bend 13" clutch and 1.375" input shaft.

 

[ZackR]

Really excited!!! Picked up my engine and transmission this morning! Needs some cleaning and TLC, but runs good and no blow-by.

Motor is a 1996 12-valve out of a 2WD automatic. 247k on the odometer. NV4500 came out of a 1997 4WD and seller included clutch and flywheel. Unknown mileage but I'll probably rebuild it and upgrade to a South Bend 13" clutch and 1.375" input shaft.

Are you going to put this in the cruiser you just did all the work on? You should keep that one Toyota powered and find a fresh one with a tired powerplant for the diesel swap!

 

[Will Van]

Are you going to put this in the cruiser you just did all the work on? You should keep that one Toyota powered and find a fresh one with a tired powerplant for the diesel swap!

Maybe I should get this one for the diesel swap: For Sale - 94 Arizona rust free low miles 3Xlocked

That’s the color scheme I was looking for originally!

But too low miles for a swap.

 

[Will Van]

A few more pics. Motor actually has a 10/31/1995 manufacture date. I wonder how much torque it makes at the specified idle speed of 840 RPMs. Crawling at idle!!!

 

[maxamillion2345]

Lots of torque in 1st/low

With 40s, 4.56s, nv4500 and a 2:1 case I can idle over most obstacles. If you had a lower geared case it would be even better.

 

[scottryana]

From the chart I found on the B5.9-180 it looks like about 295ft/lbs at idle. lol.

A few more pics. Motor actually has a 10/31/1995 manufacture date. I wonder how much torque it makes at the specified idle speed of 840 RPMs. Crawling at idle!!!

 

[Will Van]

Lots of torque in 1st/low

With 40s, 4.56s, nv4500 and a 2:1 case I can idle over most obstacles. If you had a lower geared case it would be even better.

I'll do 35s, OEM 4.10 diffs, NV4500, and 3.12:1 t-case low, with 10% overdrive t-case gear for high. The GM NV4500s came with a 6.34 (instead of 5.61) 1st gear in the early years. I might try to rebuild it with the lower gears.

From the chart I found on the B5.9-180 it looks like about 295ft/lbs at idle. lol.

Post it up! Most of the dynographs I have seen start at 1500 RPM, not at idle. If it has 295 ft-lbs at idle, that's 21,000 lb ft of torque at idle at the wheels after you run through the trans, t-case, and diffs (295 lb ft x 5.61 NV4500 1st gear x 3.12 t-case low x 4.10 diff gear = 21,170 lb ft!!!)

 

[Will Van]

BTW, what is this? Some sort of vacuum tank?

 

[davegonz]

Sure looks like a vac canister. I take it the Dodge Rams didn't have hydroboost power steering?

 

[maxamillion2345]

Its a secondary trans cooler/warmer. Obviously you don’t need it with an NV, get rid of it.

12 valves had vac pumps and vac brake boosters fwiw. Later model dodges have hydro though.