The ‘legendary’ Toyota Land Cruiser barely sells in the US, but is still a hit around the world

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Aproach
Supporting Vendor
GOLD Star
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
8,028
Location
EAST COAST
All theses Images are of Current NON-USA TOYOTA MOTOR Co. 2019 Model Year Offerings ...



what about us in the North American Destination Market ?


TOYODA ? :mad:....



1573265684126.png




1573265707162.png



1573265772156.png






1573265794306.png



1573265820795.png





 

RWBeringer4x4

Mechanically Challenged
SILVER Star
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
4,398
Location
The People's Republik of Maryland
I think jeep knows what people want. And even if people don't want the jeep, the strong marketing jeep has sways people over to wanting the jeeps. The JL and Gladiator are pretty decent rigs. The quality control is not up to par with Toyota, but while Toyota has a firm grip on quality control and reliability, Jeep has a firm grip on selling a legit topless 4x4. Toyota does not understand the 4x4 market and how to compete in it. Its the people that don't really go offroad but still want the image of doing so that eventually sell or trade their jeep for a tacoma or 4runner because they get sick of repairing the jeep. I think that as Jeep steps up their reliability Toyota will be pushed further out of the market. Fortunately for toyota Jeep has had a lot of issues with the JK and turning people away from it, and it will be a while before they can be won back with the JL/Gladiator. The Tacoma and 4runner are the extent that Toyota is willing to put themselves out their from playing it safe, which isn't very far. The FJcruiser was far out their for toyota, which also really wasn't all that far out from a generic suv 4x4. Toyota is a boring car company, compared to jeep, and I see no willingness to change. They are too corporate, and narrow minded.
I think that was the point I was trying to make - it isn’t that Toyota is boring or narrow-minded, it’s that they are a BUSINESS. They look at it from a market perspective. What the American people as a whole want are boring, unimaginative vehicles. They want the Camry, the Prius, and the RAV4. Heck I’ll even give them that the Prius is revolutionary in its own right... In the truck market they deliver capable, affordable pickups.

There’s not enough business in the “topless 4x4” market here to make chasing Jeep worth the investment. They can hold their own in the general 4x4 market with the Taco and the 4-runner without building the niche SWB topless off-road vehicle, so why try?

All that to bring this full circle and say - this is also why I’m surprised the 200-series continues to limp on. It competes with Range Rover and the other “premium” SUV’s and is priced the same as its Lexus counterpart. It’s now a status symbol - without the “status” of Luxury branding. I’m honestly not 100% sure why people buy the Toyota when the Lexus badge earns more “respect” in the crowds that such things matter in. The 5000 Land Cruisers they sell a year are probably just us 5000 fanboys. In a car driving population of a couple hundred million, it’s a small miracle they even bother selling it here at all.
 

bamma

SILVER Star
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
909
Location
Spokane
Price and the lack of a manual option are a major dissuader to me getting a new Land Cruiser (lets be serious, mostly price).

The 4Runner is very capable at half the price - but I (collectively we) are a niche Market. Nobody 4-wheels any of these trucks, by a large percentage, and nobody wants “bare bones” anymore. 90% of my friends (the 35 and under ones) can’t change their own oil, want a point-A-point-B vehicle and could care less about “personality.” Most of them want a self driving, electric car so they don’t even need to look up from their phones at all anymore.

Even my friends with Jeeps, Xterras, etc won’t off-road them because if they break it, they can’t fix it. Modern vehicles, to me, are appliances, and no more exciting than my washing machine.

Even if they made a “real” Land Cruiser - CAFE standards would basically guarantee no manual transmission, so I’d be out. I expect 2020 will be the last year for the manual in the Tacoma.

I like bare bones, utilitarian vehicles - hate all the touch-screens and “drive assist” packages in modern vehicles (and I’m technically a millennial). Give me a stick-shift, Solid axle vehicle with roll down windows, a motor that will go 300,000 miles, and price it under $35k and I’ll pretty much get in line. That said, like @Rainman I’d take some modern creature comforts in terms of suspension, sound deafening, AC/power steering etc.

Every concept I’ve seen Toyota come out with in recent years around a “next gen” off-roader has been an abortion of design. Really they even missed the mark with the FJ Cruiser...

I think ultimately the 200-series Land Cruiser is pretty much doomed here, and I don’t foresee a replacement. 4-Runner has filled the Niche for the affordable off-roader and the 200-series successor will likely live on as a Lexus, but a $90,000 Toyota doesn’t carry the status of a Lexus, nor the affordability of a Toyota. It’s a Niche without a market.

EDIT - just saw how long this was - don’t drink and type kids.
The 200 comes in a bare bones option overseas, including a manual w V6. Wish we could get it here. Having owned two 200 series Land Cruisers, I can say they are VERY capable off road, and the KDSS is much better than on the 4Runner. I love my 40, nothing like it. I highly recommend taking a 200 off road to see how awesome they are.

Unfortunately, I agree the FJ Cruiser was a horrible design, and it will likely be the reason (excuse) Toyota puts less emphasis on the segment in the U.S. market. It needed 4 doors and better visibility. I test drove one and fell out of love with it in 2007. A true new 40 will never exist due to Toyota attorneys worry about rollover risk.

As much as I love the 70 series, I don't know if it would be a hit here. I'd love one, but it is expensive with some basic options. It would probably sell for $50k here. The average pavement driver would smartly take a 4runner with its better road manners. The 70 series also has poor safety ratings. The truck version finally got airbags a couple years ago, to comply with Australian mine safety rules. I'd happily take one, but myself and most people on Mud are a bit different compared with the average SUV buyer.
 

Brian/99uzj100

GOLD Star
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
97
Location
Paso Robles, CA
Every couple months I visit Toyota.com.au (Australia) and drool...

4.5 liter V8 turbo diesel, 5 speed, and front & rear lockers.
I don't know the price of these, is it comparable to a TRD Tacoma or 4Runner here?

IMG_2603.PNG
IMG_2604.PNG
 

bamma

SILVER Star
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
909
Location
Spokane
Here is a good 200 option. Wish we had it in the U.S.:


20190614_130058.jpg


20190609_083244.jpg
 

RAYJON

Get a bigger hammer..
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
1,767
Location
Reno NV
back in 2007-08 at cruise Moab the toyota VP for north america was there and was asked about the possibility of a diesel or a 70 series in the US his response was that we were too small of a market segment in this country and with the EPA changing the standards so often they couldn't justify the R&D for emissions. The cool part is he gets it, loves land cruisers and helped push the FJ, TRD packages and toyota trail teams, In todays market with all the US regulations it is almost impossible to build/sell something all of us would buy...

Do what I am planning when the Euro fails, I want a really nice 25 year old 70 series 4 door...
 

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Aproach
Supporting Vendor
GOLD Star
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
8,028
Location
EAST COAST
I think ( IMO ) Our Elder Statesman @65swb45 should start a Very Professional and well intended

Petition Thread .



then later , it can be Very Professionally handed over to TOYOTA MOTOR Co. USA

for Review to Digest .........



just my :


DSCN9587.JPG
 
Last edited:

RWBeringer4x4

Mechanically Challenged
SILVER Star
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
4,398
Location
The People's Republik of Maryland
The 200 comes in a bare bones option overseas, including a manual w V6. Wish we could get it here. Having owned two 200 series Land Cruisers, I can say they are VERY capable off road, and the KDSS is much better than on the 4Runner. I love my 40, nothing like it. I highly recommend taking a 200 off road to see how awesome they are.

Unfortunately, I agree the FJ Cruiser was a horrible design, and it will likely be the reason (excuse) Toyota puts less emphasis on the segment in the U.S. market. It needed 4 doors and better visibility. I test drove one and fell out of love with it in 2007. A true new 40 will never exist due to Toyota attorneys worry about rollover risk.

As much as I love the 70 series, I don't know if it would be a hit here. I'd love one, but it is expensive with some basic options. It would probably sell for $50k here. The average pavement driver would smartly take a 4runner with its better road manners. The 70 series also has poor safety ratings. The truck version finally got airbags a couple years ago, to comply with Australian mine safety rules. I'd happily take one, but myself and most people on Mud are a bit different compared with the average SUV buyer.
The 200 series is phenomenal off-road - I just doubt too many people are going to drop $85-90k on a luxury sport utility vehicle then kit ot out and go wheeling. I’m sure there are quite a few over on the 200 series forum but that’s a sub-segment of a sub-segment.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
4,193
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ
Price and the lack of a manual option are a major dissuader to me getting a new Land Cruiser (lets be serious, mostly price).

The 4Runner is very capable at half the price - but I (collectively we) are a niche Market. Nobody 4-wheels any of these trucks, by a large percentage, and nobody wants “bare bones” anymore. 90% of my friends (the 35 and under ones) can’t change their own oil, want a point-A-point-B vehicle and could care less about “personality.” Most of them want a self driving, electric car so they don’t even need to look up from their phones at all anymore.

Even my friends with Jeeps, Xterras, etc won’t off-road them because if they break it, they can’t fix it. Modern vehicles, to me, are appliances, and no more exciting than my washing machine.

Even if they made a “real” Land Cruiser - CAFE standards would basically guarantee no manual transmission, so I’d be out. I expect 2020 will be the last year for the manual in the Tacoma.

I like bare bones, utilitarian vehicles - hate all the touch-screens and “drive assist” packages in modern vehicles (and I’m technically a millennial). Give me a stick-shift, Solid axle vehicle with roll down windows, a motor that will go 300,000 miles, and price it under $35k and I’ll pretty much get in line. That said, like @Rainman I’d take some modern creature comforts in terms of suspension, sound deafening, AC/power steering etc.

Every concept I’ve seen Toyota come out with in recent years around a “next gen” off-roader has been an abortion of design. Really they even missed the mark with the FJ Cruiser...

I think ultimately the 200-series Land Cruiser is pretty much doomed here, and I don’t foresee a replacement. 4-Runner has filled the Niche for the affordable off-roader and the 200-series successor will likely live on as a Lexus, but a $90,000 Toyota doesn’t carry the status of a Lexus, nor the affordability of a Toyota. It’s a Niche without a market.

EDIT - just saw how long this was - don’t drink and type kids.
You have summed it up perfectly, couldn’t agree more!!! I also prefer simple and utility oriented. Millennials don’t understand function and utility over creature comfort gimmickry. I too would also prefer roll up windows over power. Less gimmicks equals less to break in the back country.
 

Racer65

SILVER Star
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
2,930
Location
Palo Alto, CA
I don't get it. How is it that an off-road capable 4x4 is not a business, but a 90 grand monstrosity that nobody buys is a business?
Jeep is doing all the things Toyota says they can't make a business out of. The entire auto market is heading toward trucks and SUVs, and Toyota doesn't want to play ball?
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
1,622
Location
Duckburg
Let the Land Cruiser sales figures speak for themselves......
USA
1973 : 11.218
1983 : 4.805
1993 : 8.886
2003 : 6.671
2013 : 3.082
2018 : 3.235

Europe
1999 : 20.657
2018 : 6.977

........the buyers doesn't want them, that´s all.
.....a product that is not successful on certain markets will be sorted out......business as usual.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
1,622
Location
Duckburg
1 more example: Another japanes carmaker Suzuki and its Jimny.
American Buyers Don’t Want the Suzuki Jimny.....
... in Germany you have to wait more than 12 month to get one...
.....
great cars ....huge sucess around the globe!

Forgotten... the author is too stupid to understand the product. ;)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
1,266
Location
New South Wales, Australia
Every couple months I visit Toyota.com.au (Australia) and drool...

4.5 liter V8 turbo diesel, 5 speed, and front & rear lockers.
I don't know the price of these, is it comparable to a TRD Tacoma or 4Runner here?

View attachment 2128494View attachment 2128495
A VDJ76 goes for around 76k AUD here which is top end of that sector here.
What they say is if you say it's too expensive, you don't need one
 
Top Bottom