Swapping 3rd member during arb locker install (1 Viewer)

[highfructose]

Would it be possible to swap a tundra 4.10 front third member into a 200 series and a 100 series rear third member with 4.10’s into the rear?

I’m trying to find a good way to get an arb locker in the rear and potentially gear down at the same time.

I’m running 32.9” tires and no heavy bumpers so 4.10‘s seem appropriate.

i’d consider just putting 4.10’s in my existing carriers, but I’m having trouble finding someone local that’s familiar with/has experience with arb lockers...so I may end up doing the locker install myself.

if I do it myself, though, my local code enforcement will likely hassle me about having my vehicle partially disassembled during the project (they got me while doing an axle job on an old 4wd a few years back).

being that I’ve never done a gearing/locker install, I figure I might be able to purchase third members with 4.10’s already installed and do the locker install at my leisure...then take a few hours installing the new third members into the 200. No worries with code enforcement and no rush on the arb install if I do it this way.

Upside to this also is should I ever decide to sell my vehicle, I can swap my 4.10 third members and locker out and bring the vehicle back to stock...and if I get good deals on the third members, I might be able to get them for less than the total costs of a set of 4.10 gears.

Any thoughts or advice on this course of action?

 

[linuxgod]

If you're always in Florida then 4.10s would get your RPMs back to stock. But if you ever tow a trailer, or go anywhere that isn't flat, or if you eventually add more weight or reduce aerodymanics (bumper, roof rack, etc) you'd be better off doing 4.30 gears.

I'm not 100% sure on swapping Tundra parts. I know there are some differences depending on the vehicle spec, for instance the Tundra with a 5.7 typically gets a 10.5" rear but the 4.7 gets the same 9.5" rear that we get in the LC/LX. Fronts I'm not sure but Nitro-gear has a 4.30 and a 4.88 package which fits some Tundras so I would *assume* the 3rds you're looking at would fit your vehicle. However it's possible the gears are identical but the housing is slightly different.

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Looking at the parts individually I would expect a 100-series rear and a Tundra front would probably work, but I'd recommend doing some solid research first or else you might find yourself spending a lot of $ in shipping 3rd members around that don't quite fit.

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I think there's may be some compatibility info out there in the forums as well. Search for the thread by @bjowett where he sourced a 4.30 Tundra rear. @TeCKis300 also did a thread with a 4.30 swap into his LX570 recently, though IIRC he used a front out of a 100-series.

 

[bloc]

The hot setup is 4.30 tundra front, which is plentiful and cheap at parts yards. Easy install, just need to remove the tundra extension housing, remove a small bearing from the end of it, and bolt on the 200 housing. Then either sourcing the OEM 4.3 gears for a 200 which are about 550 not including the setup kit, or grabbing a 4.30 rear third member out of a 100-series. That will bolt in, the one difference being the front pinion bearing and pinion shaft is slightly smaller diameter than the 200 parts. Probably more than enough.
That is the swap that teckis did. Jowett IDed the 4.30 9.5 rear 200 gears but I haven’t seen anyone install them yet. I think that is what I’ll do whenever I get around to 285/75/17 tires.

Edit: and this approach gives you the undeniable quality of OEM toyota gears. Personally I’d rather run a 200k mile set of 100 gears than aftermarket. Someone here installed nitros and didn’t like the amount of metal that came off them when new, though that did eventually clear up. Toyota gears don’t do that.

 

[highfructose]

The hot setup is 4.30 tundra front, which is plentiful and cheap at parts yards. Easy install, just need to remove the tundra extension housing, remove a small bearing from the end of it, and bolt on the 200 housing. Then either sourcing the OEM 4.3 gears for a 200 which are about 550 not including the setup kit, or grabbing a 4.30 rear third member out of a 100-series. That will bolt in, the one difference being the front pinion bearing and pinion shaft is slightly smaller diameter than the 200 parts. Probably more than enough.
That is the swap that teckis did. Jowett IDed the 4.30 9.5 rear 200 gears but I haven’t seen anyone install them yet. I think that is what I’ll do whenever I get around to 285/75/17 tires.

Edit: and this approach gives you the undeniable quality of OEM toyota gears. Personally I’d rather run a 200k mile set of 100 gears than aftermarket. Someone here installed nitros and didn’t like the amount of metal that came off them when new, though that did eventually clear up. Toyota gears don’t do that.

Thanks for the response.



I’ve found lots of 4.10 front third members from tundras and several 4.10 rears from 100’s...even purchasing a front and rear third member like this, I’m still close to half what it would cost for just a rear 3rd member (with 3.90’s) from a 200.

are you aware of whether the 4.10 fronts and 4.30 fronts are comparable?

 

[bloc]

are you aware of whether the 4.10 fronts and 4.30 fronts are comparable?

They should be interchangeable, just different gears inside the case. No tricky stuff like the front and rear 3.3 carrier/housing in a 2016+ 200 series being different than the 3.9 in a 2008-2015.

I remember seeing a ton of 4.3 tundra fronts on car-part.com when I did my digging.. can't remember if it's a certain option package or whatever but that site allows you to specify ratio. Same thing for the 100-series rear.. though there are far fewer and cost will reflect that. Plus you'll have a lot of trouble finding a low mileage one.

 

[highfructose]

They should be interchangeable, just different gears inside the case. No tricky stuff like the front and rear 3.3 carrier/housing in a 2016+ 200 series being different than the 3.9 in a 2008-2015.

I remember seeing a ton of 4.3 tundra fronts on car-part.com when I did my digging.. can't remember if it's a certain option package or whatever but that site allows you to specify ratio. Same thing for the 100-series rear.. though there are far fewer and cost will reflect that. Plus you'll have a lot of trouble finding a low mileage one.

yes I looked there. I found a 2003 4.10 land cruiser rear and a 4.10 2008+ tundra front for $700 shipped to me.

I just need to figure out for sure before I pull the trigger.

 

[bloc]

yes I looked there. I found a 2003 4.10 land cruiser rear and a 4.10 2008+ tundra front for $700 shipped to me.

I just need to figure out for sure before I pull the trigger.

@linuxgod was correct about the argument for 4.3s. If your plans include anything that will increase wind resistance, it is smart to go a step further than the exact gearing to restore factory RPMs at a given speed. Those aero consequences add necessary horsepower to go a given speed, and if the engine is sitting at a higher RPM it'll have a better time delivering it. From discussion here it seems you need to make a big jump in RPMs to impact mileage, if that is a consideration.

Elsewhere in this section people have done the calculations to determine highway RPMs for given gears/tires etc, if you are curious.

Your locker install strategy is pretty good.. and yes 4.1s are ideal to even things out. Just try to keep in mind the bigger picture of the build and what you may end up doing in the future. I can say from experience it would suck to do your 4.10s and find out in a couple years you just need to do 4.30s at that point.

 

[TeCKis300]

This thread should help with install details, though it's focused on 4.3s. Personally, while 4.1s may put you exactly back at stock gearing, which I highly recommend, I'm not sure the effort is worth the 5% correction? 4.3s may not be worth the effort either in your situation, as I find the 5.7L to be imminently tractable, save for the largest of loads (like my ~15k combined rig with 33.2" tires). It would be a cool project to tackle and I can't say I didn't enjoy the satisfaction of it.

Even with installing the locker on a spare carrier, I found it to be only 20% of the work. You're going to be under the car a bit.

DIY 4.3 Re-Gear

Still in the early stages and I could use some recommendations on differential install kits/parts. I've got the keystone pieces in the garage as I attempt to collect the ancillary parts before I rip into the car. Planning a 4.3 re-gear with rear only Harrop e-locker. Locker is less of a...

forum.ih8mud.com

The 2003 4.10 land cruiser rear and a 4.10 2008+ tundra should drop right in, based on my understanding.

 

[highfructose]

@linuxgod was correct about the argument for 4.3s. If your plans include anything that will increase wind resistance, it is smart to go a step further than the exact gearing to restore factory RPMs at a given speed. Those aero consequences add necessary horsepower to go a given speed, and if the engine is sitting at a higher RPM it'll have a better time delivering it. From discussion here it seems you need to make a big jump in RPMs to impact mileage, if that is a consideration.

Elsewhere in this section people have done the calculations to determine highway RPMs for given gears/tires etc, if you are curious.

Your locker install strategy is pretty good.. and yes 4.1s are ideal to even things out. Just try to keep in mind the bigger picture of the build and what you may end up doing in the future. I can say from experience it would suck to do your 4.10s and find out in a couple years you just need to do 4.30s at that point.

Thank you. I may do 4.30’s at some point in the future if I wreck my current bumpers and replace them with heav aftermarket ones. Hopefully that never happens though...w

Everywhere I look, replacement rear third members from a 100 and 200 are sold interchangeably. So I feel confident in picking up a used 100 rear.

clearly the 4.30 tundra fronts go in with little trouble...I haven’t come across anyone that swapped a 4.10 front from a tundra over yet though.

I need to do some research and see if the 4.10 and 4.30 tundra front ends are identical other than gear sizes.

 

[highfructose]

This thread should help with install details, though it's focused on 4.3s. Personally, while 4.1s may put you exactly back at stock gearing, which I highly recommend, I'm not sure the effort is worth the 5% correction? 4.3s may not be worth the effort either in your situation, as I find the 5.7L to be imminently tractable, save for the largest of loads (like my ~15k combined rig with 33.2" tires). It would be a cool project to tackle and I can't say I didn't enjoy the satisfaction of it.

Even with installing the locker on a spare carrier, I found it to be only 20% of the work. You're going to be under the car a bit.

DIY 4.3 Re-Gear

Still in the early stages and I could use some recommendations on differential install kits/parts. I've got the keystone pieces in the garage as I attempt to collect the ancillary parts before I rip into the car. Planning a 4.3 re-gear with rear only Harrop e-locker. Locker is less of a...

forum.ih8mud.com

The 2003 4.10 land cruiser rear and a 4.10 2008+ tundra should drop right in, based on my understanding.

thank you for the link.

You are correct that 4.10 is a marginal difference...

however one of the main reasons I’m buying even one new third member is so I can do the hard part of the gear/locker install without taking the truck apart...and if I wanted to buy a 3.90 third member and leave the gearing stock...they cost around 1100 before shipping.


as it stands, if I go with 4.10’s, I can get my gears back to “stock” given the increased tire diameter and it only costs 700 shipped (100 rears and tundras fronts are stupid cheap).

considering you’ve done this before, I may end up asking you some questions when/if this project gets underway

and you’re right, the bulk of the labor will be under the truck, not on the carrier. The under the truck part of the job I’m confident with though...just wrench turning. The gears and locker will be new. I have access to the tools for ensuring the gears are set properly...and I’m pretty sure I can drill a hole and install a fitting for an arb locker...but I will probably take a LONG time to do those parts so I can ensure it is 100%.

 

[TeCKis300]

Gotcha. That all makes sense. I will say that stock gearing is a beautiful thing. As it is now, I have 35x12.5s, with effectively stock gearing. It's all brilliant with shifts on point, load handling on point, and efficiency on point. Can't even really tell it's on 35s and from the drivers seat, as it feels factory. Just the way I like it.

There's reasons including those stated in this thread, particularly aero mod losses perhaps wanting more gear.

Sure, happy to answer any questions.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

@highfructose im in Tampa right now, if you wanna bounce over here. We can take my 200 around that has been regeared and see what you think of it.

I only mention it as I’ve now found out I’ll be re-regearing my 4th 200. One 6 speed and now three 8 speeds.

I got my bachelors at UCF and I’m sure you know as much as me, there is no place in Florida that you can get to a nice speed, and coast there. You are either accelerating, or braking. Rolling around here yesterday while visiting people, I was happy to be where I’m at, gearing wise.

One thing that helped me was I had a friend with a 4.6 tundra with a 4.30 rear end that popped right in our housings. I swapped his 4.30s in my 200 with 33s when I lived in El Paso and took a week trip and was like. “NOPE!” And went to 4.88s. Notsaying that is right for you, I do have a high clearance bumper and that changes things a lot. But it was nice to run in three different gear rations on my same 200. Then know that I was happy with where I landed.

Let me know, I’ll be leaving this weekend.

 

[highfructose]

@highfructose im in Tampa right now, if you wanna bounce over here. We can take my 200 around that has been regeared and see what you think of it.

I only mention it as I’ve now found out I’ll be re-regearing my 4th 200. One 6 speed and now three 8 speeds.

I got my bachelors at UCF and I’m sure you know as much as me, there is no place in Florida that you can get to a nice speed, and coast there. You are either accelerating, or braking. Rolling around here yesterday while visiting people, I was happy to be where I’m at, gearing wise.

One thing that helped me was I had a friend with a 4.6 tundra with a 4.30 rear end that popped right in our housings. I swapped his 4.30s in my 200 with 33s when I lived in El Paso and took a week trip and was like. “NOPE!” And went to 4.88s. Notsaying that is right for you, I do have a high clearance bumper and that changes things a lot. But it was nice to run in three different gear rations on my same 200. Then know that I was happy with where I landed.

Let me know, I’ll be leaving this weekend.

thank you for the offer. Are you doing a trail ride this weekend while you’re down?

also, are you saying the 4.6 tundra rear Third members are swappable with a 200?

Because that would make this project way easier. It’s hard to find good 100 series rear thirds.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

thank you for the offer. Are you doing a trail ride this weekend while you’re down?

also, are you saying the 4.6 tundra rear Third members are swappable with a 200?

Because that would make this project way easier. It’s hard to find good 100 series rear thirds.

I didn’t have any trail ride planned, unless you know about something. I’m just sitting on a beach today. For the tundra, it was a 07-13 4.6l and it had a 9.5 rear end. The second gen Tundra definitely did not always come with a 10.5 rear end. I’m not 100% on what combinations get that axle with ratio, but I know it can’t have a 5.7. Maybe a tundra with a 4.0 V6 would also have the 9.5 rear end? Then I know there were years that the non 5.7 tundra had a tow package option, and that had the next jump in a numerically higher ratio. I think it ended with the face lift in 2014? I was talking with someone who had a second gen Tundra with the 4.7 that was carried over, and he said he didn’t get a 10.5 rear end. But that was just talking, and I had no way of confirming it.

I wasn’t sure what ratio it was until I jacked up the rear and of his tundra, and spun the rear prop shaft shaft and counted the tire rotations. Then found it had a 4.30 (counted teeth once out to confirm).

Edit: thinking back, that truck was lifted on 35s. A bro rig that he only drove on the roads. I sent him a message and asked about that truck. He has since sold it, but he said it was a ‘07 that he bought from a guy like that who wanted “to use it for gettin’ it.” I don’t know what that means, but now I’m wondering if second gen tundra ever came with a 9.5” with 4.30 gears? That truck had a ton of money thrown at it from the first owner.

 

[highfructose]

I didn’t have any trail ride planned, unless you know about something. I’m just sitting on a beach today. For the tundra, it was a 07-13 4.6l and it had a 9.5 rear end. The second gen Tundra definitely did not always come with a 10.5 rear end. I’m not 100% on what combinations get that axle with ratio, but I know it can’t have a 5.7. Maybe a tundra with a 4.0 V6 would also have the 9.5 rear end? Then I know there were years that the non 5.7 tundra had a tow package option, and that had the next jump in a numerically higher ratio. I think it ended with the face lift in 2014? I was talking with someone who had a second gen Tundra with the 4.7 that was carried over, and he said he didn’t get a 10.5 rear end. But that was just talking, and I had no way of confirming it.

I wasn’t sure what ratio it was until I jacked up the rear and of his tundra, and spun the rear prop shaft shaft and counted the tire rotations. Then found it had a 4.30 (counted teeth once out to confirm).

Edit: thinking back, that truck was lifted on 35s. A bro rig that he only drove on the roads. I sent him a message and asked about that truck. He has since sold it, but he said it was a ‘07 that he bought from a guy like that who wanted “to use it for gettin’ it.” I don’t know what that means, but now I’m wondering if second gen tundra ever came with a 9.5” with 4.30 gears? That truck had a ton of money thrown at it from the first owner.

thank you for the info. I’m in the Florida Land Cruiser group on Facebook and haven’t heard of any rides this week.

a quick search shows that some of the v6 tundra rear thirds may be identical to the land cruiser 200’s.

“The 9.5" does have 32 spline shafts, it also shares the differential to axle housing gasket part number with the Land Cruiser 100. Soooo, 98 and up LC diffs should work. Time to order some parts....:tu:”

9.5" Rear axle 4.0/4.6/4.7

www.tundrasolutions.com

 

[bloc]

thank you for the info. I’m in the Florida Land Cruiser group on Facebook and haven’t heard of any rides this week.

a quick search shows that some of the v6 tundra rear thirds may be identical to the land cruiser 200’s.

“The 9.5" does have 32 spline shafts, it also shares the differential to axle housing gasket part number with the Land Cruiser 100. Soooo, 98 and up LC diffs should work. Time to order some parts....:tu:”

9.5" Rear axle 4.0/4.6/4.7

www.tundrasolutions.com

I did a little digging in the parts diagrams. The rear diff in 4.0L v6 & 4.7L v8 tundra only has two spider gears, compared to four in the 100 & 200. Even if it bolts in it isn't as strong. Now with you replacing the diff carrier with an ARB the spider gear count isn't as important, but is the rest of it made lighter duty too? The housing itself is different, with a boss on the Tundra part to mount some kind of vibration damper. No way to know if it is as beefy as a 100/200 part without comparing side by side.

Also a little interesting that the 10.5" diff in the 5.7L tundras only got two spider gears.. the larger ring & pinion are probably more about heat build up and long term wear than ultimate strength.

 

[highfructose]

I did a little digging in the parts diagrams. The rear diff in 4.0L v6 & 4.7L v8 tundra only has two spider gears, compared to four in the 100 & 200. Even if it bolts in it isn't as strong. Now with you replacing the diff carrier with an ARB the spider gear count isn't as important, but is the rest of it made lighter duty too? The housing itself is different, with a boss on the Tundra part to mount some kind of vibration damper. No way to know if it is as beefy as a 100/200 part without comparing side by side.

Also a little interesting that the 10.5" diff in the 5.7L tundras only got two spider gears.. the larger ring & pinion are probably more about heat build up and long term wear than ultimate strength.

good to know about the spider gears.

i emailed brian from Jowett performance to see if the carriers are compatible. He seems to be an authority on tundra third members.

 

[highfructose]

good to know about the spider gears.

i emailed brian from Jowett performance to see if the carriers are compatible. He seems to be an authority on tundra third members.

I emailed a few companies and got a response from east coast gear supply

“The tundra Front diff and LC200 are the same diff a T9R.

The rear diff LC200 is a T9.5 - The Tundra 4.7 is T9.5 - The Tundra 5.7 is a T10.5 and will not swap.

So the T9R and the T9.5 are interchangeable but are not upgrades.”

I’m not one to experiment with this kind of thing so I’m currently either planning to pay someone 900 dollars to do the arb locker install...or wait for a local wrecked 200 series to pop up so I can purchase the rear third member from it. I think the price for a rear third from a wrecked 200 will exceed the price for an arb install though.

however, if the tundra thirds are opened up to me, I can get a pair of them for about the price of 1 200 series rear...and I can easily get them in 4.10 gears which would be a smart upgrade since I’m running slightly larger tires than stock (32.9”).

does anyone know whether swapping to an arb locker would “fix” the 2 pinion vs 4 pinion difference between the tundra and 200 series third members?

 

[CharlieS]

I'd think the ARB unit replaces everything but the ring gear, and all of the stock diff guts go away. That's how it has worked on other vehicles where I swapped out the diff.