Suspension setup help/make sure I am doing this right (1 Viewer)

[ChaseFJ80]

So on my 96 land cruiser I am running 35s (stock gears) with the heavy duty OME 2.5" shocks and coils with some extended bump stops so there Is no rub. I also have the OME caster correction bushing in and 1.5" wheel spacers. I am going to be changing out the suspension for a better setup that'll hopefully be more smooth and flex better. Here is what the plan is:

-3.5" Dobinsons front tapered coils
-3" Dobinsons rear tapered coils
-4"-6" Icon shocks front and back

So if anybody could help me out and let me know what issues there may be in this setup or some things I might run into. I saw on another thread that you can pair the 3" Dobinsons tapered with 4"-6" shocks for more downtravel, while also extending bumpstops so the shock doesn't bottom out. I've also heard that Icon 2.0 and fox 2.0 are pretty similar. If y'all know any shocks that ride pretty smooth, let me know of some good ones. My end goal is to have 38s on beadlocks similar to @GW Nugget, but eventually with a 3link in place. I saw that he did the 1" body lift. I think that'll help with uptravel and less trimming. I might put in the body lift just to skip out the trimming eventually, but that's later down the road. Also might eventually get Delta's 1" bumpstop spacer with the hydraulic bump (not sure if I'll need a coil spacer anyways). If any of y'all have any suggestions, some insight, or any information that would help me before I jump into this project, please let me know. (also on a teenage lifeguard money budget here) Thanks!

Chase

 

[zapatius]

Man, teenage lifeguarding must pay pretty well!

My only chime in for your project is you'll need more caster correction, extend the sway bar drop and a DC shaft.

 

[ChaseFJ80]

Man, teenage lifeguarding must pay pretty well!

My only chime in for your project is you'll need more caster correction, extend the sway bar drop and a DC shaft.

Well, I saved up for the coils, so once I get those in and out with the OME 2.5" heavy duty, the plan is to sell the coils and then with the money from the coils, buy the new shocks. But that's if everything works like it should.

I have The sway bar drop but most of the time i just run the sway bar disconnected since OME heavy duty is so stiff. Also what are the benefits/purpose of running the DC shaft. I don't know what all that means but I found a DC shaft on SLEE (I attached the link to the DC shaft). Could I be able to get by without messing with the driveshaft? Would it make a big difference?

 

[zapatius]

The DC shaft corrects the increased pinion angle from a taller lift. Lots of discussion on threads posted about it.

Double Cardan Drive Shaft Solutions

After lifting an 80 series past a certain point and or correcting the front castor to account for the lift, a double cardan (DC) joint drive shaft will be needed. Slee Off-Road offers an excellent solution with all new quality Spicer joints and also a local drive shaft shop can make any custom...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Box Rocket]

Take a good look through the Suspension spec thread and check the compressed and extended measurements of the different shocks. I can say that the Slinky stage 1 shocks are the right length for a 3" tapered coil and will give a full 12" of travel front and rear. If you run a different shock, I'd compare the compressed and extended lengths to those Slinky ones to get you in the right ballpark. Shocks are going to make the biggest difference in the ride quality.

It sounds to me like you're planning on more rockcrawling than "overlanding" type wheeling. If that's the case and you're keeping your rig pretty light then the stage 1 Slinky (or Icon) will work fine. Side note: from my experience, the Slinky/Icon shocks are a much better shock than the Fox 2.0. I like the valving better in the Slinky/Icons and they seem to have much less shock fade when running them hard.

If you're going for a more overland style build that's going to add a fair bit of weight I'd strongly recommend stepping up to a true 2.5 adjustable shock. The smaller 2.0 smooth body shocks just aren't up to the task on a heavier rig. Of course they are much more expensive than a smooth body shock so budget can be a factor but if you're looking for a smooth ride and top performance it's the way to go.

Compiled 80 series suspension component spec thread... shocks, coils & more.

80 series coil & shock specs A few years back 80 series suspension was fairly easy to figure out & purchase since there was only a few of options to chose from. Recently there has been a few suppliers stepping up to play in the USA 80 series market offering more options. Now with a plethora of...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Box Rocket]

You'll know pretty quickly if you need a DC driveshaft. If you get driveline vibrations after the new lift it will likely be from the front driveshaft and a DC shaft will be needed.

Personally, I prefer leaving the swaybars on, and also prefer a HD rear swaybar. It has very little effect on flex. The front radius arms limit front flex more than the swaybar does. If you 3-link the front down the road then you can decide if you want to run some kind of aftermarket front swaybar since the stock one won't work with most 3-links.

Just for reference. This is 3" Slinky suspension (12" travel shocks), stock radius arms, stock front swaybar attached and HD rear swaybar in place. Seems to flex pretty good IMO even with the stock radius arms.
IMG_0630 by Adam Tolman, on Flickr

 

[toddsmith1]

Ok, you have a lot of different things going on and you will have a lot of different opinions First if you plan on going to 38's I would think you need to regear. That is expensive. Then again everything is expensive. Is a 3-3.5" lift tall enough to get any articulation with 38's?. If you are going with Dobinson coils, why would you not also go with their shocks? As one of the other posters mention, are you going for a crawling rig or overland? How much weight are you going to end up with? Adding bumpers, winch, roof rack,, ect?

I just completely redid my rig from top to bottom. That included the full 3" flexicoil set up from Dobinsons with their IMF shocks. Before that I had a 2" Ironman lift with kyb monotube shocks. It actually drove and road very nice with that set up, but I wanted maximum articulation without doing major suspension changes like a 3link. I did have Dobinsons send me the shocks for a 4-6" lift so I would get max travel. The ride with the new set up is fantastic! I could not be happier. Nice thing about buying all the components from the same compony, they are designed to work together. As a note, I did add a HD rear sway bar to minimize roll with the Flexis.

I had 2 percent caster correction bushings from the previous build already installed. I purchased caster plates, caster drop down brackets and i also got new bushings from Dobinsons. I don't need any of them! The bushing I had before are giving me enough caster that my truck runs straight and true down the highway at 70. Here is the deal about caster that I don;t see a lot of people mentioning. In my case at least, if I added more caster, then it will drop my pinion angle to a degree that I will then need to spend $500 for a new drive shaft. Don't need it and don't want to spend the extra cash.

Here is a picture of my truck with 305's. I have a drawer system in the back with at least 150 lbs of gear. Just to give you an idea about a 3" lift.

 

[ChaseFJ80]

The DC shaft corrects the increased pinion angle from a taller lift. Lots of discussion on threads posted about it.

Double Cardan Drive Shaft Solutions

After lifting an 80 series past a certain point and or correcting the front castor to account for the lift, a double cardan (DC) joint drive shaft will be needed. Slee Off-Road offers an excellent solution with all new quality Spicer joints and also a local drive shaft shop can make any custom...

forum.ih8mud.com

So from my understanding, I could fix the driveshaft problem if I move the front control arms forward? I'm not too worried about the DC shaft unless it becomes an immediate problem or will hurt the car. But I will look into the DC shaft after I get the lift set into the cruiser.

Ok, you have a lot of different things going on and you will have a lot of different opinions First if you plan on going to 38's I would think you need to regear. That is expensive. Then again everything is expensive. Is a 3-3.5" lift tall enough to get any articulation with 38's?. If you are going with Dobinson coils, why would you not also go with their shocks? As one of the other posters mention, are you going for a crawling rig or overland? How much weight are you going to end up with? Adding bumpers, winch, roof rack,, ect?

I just completely redid my rig from top to bottom. That included the full 3" flexicoil set up from Dobinsons with their IMF shocks. Before that I had a 2" Ironman lift with kyb monotube shocks. It actually drove and road very nice with that set up, but I wanted maximum articulation without doing major suspension changes like a 3link. I did have Dobinsons send me the shocks for a 4-6" lift so I would get max travel. The ride with the new set up is fantastic! I could not be happier. Nice thing about buying all the components from the same compony, they are designed to work together. As a note, I did add a HD rear sway bar to minimize roll with the Flexis.

I had 2 percent caster correction bushings from the previous build already installed. I purchased caster plates, caster drop down brackets and i also got new bushings from Dobinsons. I don't need any of them! The bushing I had before are giving me enough caster that my truck runs straight and true down the highway at 70. Here is the deal about caster that I don;t see a lot of people mentioning. In my case at least, if I added more caster, then it will drop my pinion angle to a degree that I will then need to spend $500 for a new drive shaft. Don't need it and don't want to spend the extra cash.

Here is a picture of my truck with 305's. I have a drawer system in the back with at least 150 lbs of gear. Just to give you an idea about a 3" lift.

I guess you could say that I'm doing a rock crawling build. I'm kind of just building it up to take on any challenge that presents itself... so when I have the money the steps would be (not in any particular order), the regear, lockers, rock sliders, probably a fabricated tube bumper in the front with a good winch in place, and definitely going to go with the 4x4 labs rear bumper (going to put the spare and a hilift jack on the back there). I have no intentions for a rooftop tent or new roof rack... I plan on being able to fit into the garages. The only "overlanding" I would really do is just tossing a tent and some food in the back. So the weight shouldn't be that big of a deal since the 3" tapered coils are heavy duty as well.

I don't have that much experience with different shocks, I'm just looking for a smooth ride onroad and offroad... So Icon 2.0 just seemed like an ideal option.
And it's not yellow

I already have all the information about the regear and lockers and all that mess. Also I have plans for an adjustable panhard for the front and rear eventually. If y'all wanna check out what it looks like or the progress on the cruiser, I pretty much post it all on my Instagram @bexie80series. But here is what it's lookin like right now...

 

[GW Nugget]

Your rig looks good.
I would say sliders should be high up in the list next.
38s are over rated. Stick with 37s... I lost the nimble feel I had on 37s.
37s on a 3.5" lift is a good place to be.
Look into the advantages of the axle 1" forward also.
You live in Texas so you are going to be doing a lot of pavement miles to get to most off road adventures.
You will like 37s on 4:10 gears much better then on 315s. 315s puts you in between gear RPMs. It's a 300 RPM difference from 35s to 37s. 33s to 37s is 600 RPM.

 

[Box Rocket]

Your rig looks good.
I would say sliders should be high up in the list next.
38s are over rated. Stick with 37s... I lost the nimble feel I had on 37s.
37s on a 3.5" lift is a good place to be.
Look into the advantages of the axle 1" forward also.
You live in Texas so you are going to be doing a lot of pavement miles to get to most off road adventures.
You will like 37s on 4:10 gears much better then on 315s. 315s puts you in between gear RPMs. It's a 300 RPM difference from 35s to 37s. 33s to 37s is 600 RPM.

I agree with this. I'd still consider a regear with 37's but it will definitely be more liveable with stock gears than it will with 38's. Having ridden in an 80 on 38's on the trail, I agree that there's really no significant advantage over 37's. 40's are a different story in terms of trail capabilities but 40's require a bunch more work to make fit with full suspension travel. Heck, for that matter 37's didn't give me a significant advantage over 35's on the trail if I'm being completely honest. There have been a handful of places the 37's were nice and made it easier to get the front end up a big ledge or to keep the diff for dragging on a rock, but I had been through all those same obstacles on 35's too. I still like having 37's and they work great on a 3-3.5" lift with the front end moved forward.

37's with 4.88's will drive like a stock truck and is very comfortable for long highway stretches. Recently made the drive from SLC to Vegas in my 80 and its a joy to drive on long highway drives when it's not in the dirt.

 

[ChaseFJ80]

Okay, so I guess the new plan with be 37s and not 38s... all about saving money here. So the DC shaft would be after the lift if that becomes an issue, and moving the axle forward would be for the 37s when I take on that challenge. I'll worry about the regear later, but I'll go with the 4.88 for that. I checked out the compression rates for the shocks, and it looks like I just need longer bump stops to not bottom out the shocks. Any of y'all know how long I would need the bumpstops to fit the icon 4"-6" shocks? Would I need coil spacers up front for the 3" dobinsons tapered? Just trying to make sure I got every right so I can try to have it working on the first try since it'll be the first lift I will be installing myself.

Thanks!

 

[landtank]

I have plenty of trucks running my plates and rear arms with 37" tires which doesn't move the front axle forward and they don't rub. They all run a 4" lift with 2" bump stops in the rear. Just for reference.

 

[GW Nugget]

To run 37s in the front 1" forward I would start with 2" of bump stop plus trimmed fenders.
Front with caster plate in stock position I would do 2.5" with trimmed fenders.
The 56511 2.0 front shocks need approx .5" of bump stop for protection depending how much caster you have.
56512 rear need 1" bump stop.
37s in the rear I would start at 2" bump stops.
None of what I am writing is not absolute but good starting points... every 80 needs fine tune from the operator.
All this info I gave you is here. Compiled coil, shock & suspension spec thread for 80 series.

In my previous post I was just trying to explain that 33s or 37s are more doable then 35s because of the RPM & powerband of the engine.
Try going down the street in 2nd mark you RPM then in drive at same speed. The difference is approx. 600 RPM & so is the jump from 33s to 37s is 600 RPM.
So in other words with while climbing hills, 35s will be hunting for the powerband going from 2nd to drive then to 2nd never finding the sweet spot.
With 37s you can slap it in 2nd while hill climbing & at 55 you RPM will be approx. close to 3700 RPM rather then 4000.
I have ran 37s & stock gears for years then went to 488s.... when I did the bottom end snap came back off the line.

 

[ChaseFJ80]

Okay, that makes more sense now.
I found the compression rates and the right bumpstop lengths I need. So if I get the right bumps for 37s then I don't have to worry about the right bump length for the shock since it'll be longer already for 37s. And then I can just put the 37s on without worrying about anything besides moving the front forward. I assume it would be fine if i moved the axle forward with the 35s, right?
I will probably end up figuring out the bumpstop lengths just from trial and error and testing it on the jack. I'm hoping to put the 37s on by the end of summer... gotta save up some more and my 35s still have a lot of life left since I got them around August. Still trying to read up on all the other threads too. I noticed on @GW Nugget rig, you had the 1" body lift as well. Would this keep me from having to trim more?

 

[GW Nugget]

A 1" body lift raise the fenders up & also acts like 1" bump stop. There is other benefits like more air flow through the engine & raising up the gas tank etc...
So if you need to lower a bump stop 2" & have a 1" body lift then you only need to lower your bump stop 1" which in the end will give you 1" inch more up travel at the axle 2" more at the tire.
So if a 3.5" or 4" lift is what is need to clear 37s why not a 1" body lift & a 3" suspension that allows you not to breach the vibrational bad geometry threshold of the 3" suspension on the 80 series?
This is the route I went to achieve 4" of lift. I have a stock front drive shaft, stock panhard bars, stock control arms & stock sway bars still to this day.
I did get a rear Delta bracket & soon will have front Delta arms, but those are not mandatory items.
Now this is were the Icon shock comes into play. The Icon 2.0 front shock has the longest down travel with the least amount of bump stop needed then any other shock I know of. This also goes for the Slinky/Icon valved 2.0 shocks 56511. This is how I got away with 38s & 1" lowered bump stop in the front.

If you want to go this route the get then get the 146/147VT coils.

 

[ChaseFJ80]

Right, so on the dobinsons website they’re listed as 2.5” lift and 3.5” lift (with the kit). But if you look at just buying the coils only it’s listed as a 3.5” lift for the front and a 3” lift in the rear. I think it’s to balance the engine weight and give a total 3” of lift. I’m probably wrong on that though. I do want to refrain from putting in the DC shaft, which is where I can see the 2.5” lift with 1” body lift is helpful. If I do the tapered 2.5” lift. I wouldn’t be able to pair it with the icon 4”-6” shocks with the compression rates I think. But I don’t see the driveshaft being that much of an issue if it is only 3” lift... anything more than that would need a DC shaft right? Also confused about the dobinsons 3.5” front and 3” rear for the tapered. I’ll check the suspension thread for that one. Thanks!

 

[GW Nugget]

The 144/145vt lift generaly lift loaded 80s about 4"
146/147vt lifts a inch lower around 23" center of hub to bottom of flare.

A 80 usually has a natural stinkbug or rake in its stance.

The Icon 56511/56512 shock will fit any lift if you use correct bump stops to protect them.

Stock front uptravel is 3" so if you lift 3" then bump down 1" you will have 5" of uptravel.

 

[ChaseFJ80]

Ohhhh ok. Thank you for clarifying!
So dobinsons 2.5" lift + 1" body lift will almost set for 37s, and won't have to worry about the DC shaft.... and The dobinsons 3.5" lift + the Icon 56511/56512 will maximize the downtravel and give some more flex (could still do 37s on this option with a little extra work on trimming). Just trying to understand the ups and downs of either one since they are both the same price for the coil lengths. Both will end up at the same height on the car but one will just have the body lift in place. Will I still have to worry about the DC shaft with the higher lift, could I be able to get by without having to spend the money on the DC shaft? The Dc shaft just seems like a lot of money that I wouldn't be willing to spend just yet.

 

[ChaseFJ80]

Sorry for the bad handwriting there, but here is what I’ve got so far... I found that the ride height will be the same that I have right now. Since the distance from the center of the wheel hub to the bottom of the fender is the same distance for the lift I have now as the 3.5” tapered lift, then I should be fine with the DC shaft since it’ll ride the same height. Am I missing anything else?

 

[GW Nugget]

Looks like you got it...
So you have the lift already at 24" center of hub to bottom of flare?
If that is the case just keep the coils you have right now then move forward with the other items on your list.
The Icon shocks will smooth out the rough ride of the single rate coils compared to the OME Nitro shocks.
The tapered coils will ride better & flex the same as heavy 850/863 Old Man Emu coils.

If to go with the 146/147vt coils you also can add a coil spacer to lift higher if wanted to try instead of a body lift.

Another note is to fit 37s no lift is required. You should be able to remove the coils & drive down the street if properly trimmed & bumped down.

Happy Trails....

Gary

PS Bexie is Sexy