Suicide Rates are Still Climbing (1 Viewer)

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Thanks Danny for that post.
Do you have any insight into the reasons for the suicides? My youngest son who is both a Navy Corpsman with the SEALS with combat time and also an Army Medic who spent a year in Iraq and was in the 21 day firefight in Fallujah has the following thoughts:
Multiple tours in hostile environments
The constant stress of ship operations
Malaria pills and the multiple shots in basic training
Intelligence levels
Loss of comradeship and loss of purpose
His other questions are the leadership of the Navy and Marines which was lacking in quality.

As far as the Army, I was in heavy combat with the 101st in Vietnam and took a lot of lives flying the gunships and on the ground as well and some people have problems with this issue. So I believe a lot of guys believe they are owed something but can't put their finger on it. As soldiers, sailors or airmen our job is to lay waste to the enemy Du Jour, as that enemy changes like the wind. I had no malevolence toward any of the people I killed, it was my job. I believe mental attitude is key to surviving any event in one's life.

I find it ironic the major companies are all doing business in Vietnam and other former enemy countries.
 
I never served in a combat zone, Roger.

So, I can’t provide actual personal insight into the effects of combat stress on the phycological makeup of combat vets.

I can tell you that my Father would have committed suicide, had he not been so against taking one’s own life. He went ashore at Omaha Beach on DDay+1 and led his platoon through the hedgerows around St Lo, France. He fought through the standoff at St Lo and was hit during the breakout at St Lo.

By that time, he had lost many close friends and he lost his best friend while he was wounded himself. His best friend died screaming for help and Daddy always felt he let him down, by not being able to help his friend.

He always suffered from survivor’s guilt and what’s now called PTSD.

My Father is the only insight I have into combat related effects.

But, I was surprised, in 2016, when I read that non-combat-related suicides occurred 16% more than combat-related suicides.

Study finds non-combat vets more likely to commit suicide

I had a couple of subordinates attempt suicide... both failed... both were the result of the stress of trying to maintain weight standards and living under the threat of “other than honorable” discharge.

There are many different types of military-related stress. I always felt there were people who were cut out for military life and people who weren’t.

I can see how certain stressful situations can make the wrong sort of person question their own personal worth. Especially if they aren’t supported by truly caring leaders.

Some people simply can’t cope... some can’t abide perceived personal failure... some don’t feel a sense of belonging... some are bullied... everyone is unique... everyone has their own baggage... their own fears... their own dreams.

There are also people who can’t cope with the end of a career, military or otherwise. Or, can’t find their way in a post-military, civilian world. Or, have survivor guilt because they didn’t see combat... I can personally attest to this.

People are triggered by many different events... I’m not an anti-vaxxer, I’ve had practically every vaccination available and never saw a negative effect.

But, there are a lot of OTC drugs and illicit drugs available nowadays and who really knows how many of these drugs interact with prescribed drugs... and who really knows what side effects really exist?

Read up on Purdue Pharma and the Sackler family sometime. Their ancestor created Valium, with no defined need. But, marketed it to doctors, as sort of a cure-all. He made millions addicting patients to Valium. His descendants have made billions addicting people to Oxycontin and Hydrocodone.

I’m sure the Sacklers have also contributed to suicides, veteran and civilian, at some time or the other.

Bottom line, we have to look out for each other... we have to watch for signs and be proactive when needed.

Everybody is unique...
 
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Here’s a new article about SOCOM suicides

US Special Ops suicides triple in 2018, as military confronts the issue
US Special Operations suicides triple in 2018, as military confronts the issue - CNNPolitics

It contains this statement,

“Several officials from across the military's services said they have not seen a correlation between combat experiences and suicide. Many suicides appear to be related to substance abuse, personal relationship issues or financial problems, officials said.”
 
Thanks for your well written posts Danny. I also believe self medication and abuse of drugs, liquor and other means to quiet the issues gnawing on the troops is a major cause. At any VA hospital anyone can see guys and gals who look older than their years and gaunt faces along with used up bodies is very sad. The VA has been very negligent in helping solve this issue.

My hat is off to your father Danny. Sounds like he served with distinction and he served as a fine example for you as you have proven yourself a good man.
 
My Iraq buddy that started a non profit with a suicide line, says the biggest cause of suicide is survivor guilt. Those that didn’t deploy feel guilty that others went and suffered or died, and they didn’t even go.
 
Here’s a new article about SOCOM suicides

US Special Ops suicides triple in 2018, as military confronts the issue
US Special Operations suicides triple in 2018, as military confronts the issue - CNNPolitics

It contains this statement,

“Several officials from across the military's services said they have not seen a correlation between combat experiences and suicide. Many suicides appear to be related to substance abuse, personal relationship issues or financial problems, officials said.”
I was SOCOM. Dealing with Toxic Sargents and Airman was my issue. One of the airman at my dinnin table was unusually quiet. I did not know why then one of the airman I knew said he commited suicide as soon as he got out. Today the Suicide rate is 8,000 men a year...that is more deaths then all the gulf wars combines. visited the VA and a alert went out police called, vetran having a PTSD melt down. He was ballng his eyes out walking down the hallway and then said to the police WHY WHY WHY... I think he saw several of his pals die in front of him. He then vomited and passed out.
 
Everyone always thinks of the Combat Vets and the suicide related to Combat; however, what they don't take into account is that there are a large number of our Active Duty and Vets that never saw combat. A lot of these young kids (yes, I say kids because a lot of them are in their early first term/enlistment) are taking their lives. It's something that we are dealing with a lot, and it is unfortunate. I think a lot of this has to do with the younger generation coming up and their inability to adapt and deal with adversity as other generations. Now a days if they aren't getting enough likes on social media, or their girlfriend/boyfriend breaks up with them, it is the end of the World. We grew up with more personal relationships with each other, where nowadays, it is more a social media thing where they may have a couple hundred friends online, but not in person. They are more closed off in the first place and just don't know how to cope with changes. Everyone wants to find an answer on how to solve the problem and keep suicides from happening, but it isn't as simple as that. There are a large number of individuals that take their lives that you never see it coming or even signs of it. A lot of unsuccessful attempts are the cries for help. A lot of people feel alone or that no one cares and that is a problem. I had a great leader once tell me to always lead with three things: Firmness, Fairness and Compassion. Most of us came up in a Military that was all yelling and an Alpha mentality, but that isn't how effect an individual or make them trust you and really feel like they can actually come to you in a time of need. The one thing I always preach is to talk to those you serve with and actually get to know them, whether a peer or under your leadership. A few things happen when you do that. You gain trust, respect and confidence and open an avenue where they feel they can come to if they feel no one else cares. Now, when you talk about trying to get an individual the help they need in the Military medical system, that's another problem. Unless an individual says they are thinking about harming themself, it takes way to long to get them help. Many just need a trained/licensed professional to listen and help give them guidance and getting that appointment takes way too long or the individual isn't the right person to be sitting in that position. Sorry for the long rant. I'm finishing up a career after 20 years and I have seen a massive shift in the way things were when I came in almost 20 years ago to now and I have never seen as many suicides as in the last few years (again, many weren't combat vets, but young kids). I wish there was a simple answer to fixing this, but the reality is that we all just need to be there for people and as I like to tell my kids and my Marines, make a difference in someones life and be a light because you never know what someone is going through. One small positive interaction can be the difference from someone ending their life and them feeling like they have something worth living.
 
Well said, @Cornhusker !! So many people find their main source of amusement in online bullying... its generally anonymous and they don't need to worry about attribution or retribution.

Computers are the bane of our existence... regardless that they solve many problems and generally make life more livable and generally make people more efficient. The main life experience degradation, IMHO, is related to the non-physical relationships and social media (of all sorts) enabling more and more trolls, fake news and anonymous bullying.

I enlisted in the USAF in 05/68 and spent 20 non-combat years developing computer software, initially onsite, on large mainframes, with a large number of co-workers. I had a lot of good friends in those days.

Around about, 1986, my software development migrated to a telecommuting situation that virtually eliminated physical working relationships and continued like that thru the remainder of my AF career. Then, I started developing software for civilian entities and spent another 23 years telecommuting (most of the time) and I can tell you, today, my MUD login is "Solace in Solitude" because I thoroughly enjoy spending my off road time with only my dogs. I lost physical touch with humanity (other than my family) years ago.

But, by the time I became a loner, I was already fully cooked... so I didn't miss interpersonal relationships as badly as I would have when I was 20... and by the time I retired a second time, solitude was second nature.

The only social media I do is MUD and even there, the anonymous bullying is readily available in P&R.

I can see why young people are so devastated by modern day bullying... are so susceptible to drug abuse... are so easily swayed by racists. Peer pressure is difficult to stand up to by adolescents. Couple all that with constant military deployments and people with self esteem deficiencies will continue to suffer.

I hope something changes to make it all better... but, I don't have much confidence that it will.
 
Everyone always thinks of the Combat Vets and the suicide related to Combat; however, what they don't take into account is that there are a large number of our Active Duty and Vets that never saw combat. A lot of these young kids (yes, I say kids because a lot of them are in their early first term/enlistment) are taking their lives. It's something that we are dealing with a lot, and it is unfortunate. I think a lot of this has to do with the younger generation coming up and their inability to adapt and deal with adversity as other generations. Now a days if they aren't getting enough likes on social media, or their girlfriend/boyfriend breaks up with them, it is the end of the World. We grew up with more personal relationships with each other, where nowadays, it is more a social media thing where they may have a couple hundred friends online, but not in person. They are more closed off in the first place and just don't know how to cope with changes. Everyone wants to find an answer on how to solve the problem and keep suicides from happening, but it isn't as simple as that. There are a large number of individuals that take their lives that you never see it coming or even signs of it. A lot of unsuccessful attempts are the cries for help. A lot of people feel alone or that no one cares and that is a problem. I had a great leader once tell me to always lead with three things: Firmness, Fairness and Compassion. Most of us came up in a Military that was all yelling and an Alpha mentality, but that isn't how effect an individual or make them trust you and really feel like they can actually come to you in a time of need. The one thing I always preach is to talk to those you serve with and actually get to know them, whether a peer or under your leadership. A few things happen when you do that. You gain trust, respect and confidence and open an avenue where they feel they can come to if they feel no one else cares. Now, when you talk about trying to get an individual the help they need in the Military medical system, that's another problem. Unless an individual says they are thinking about harming themself, it takes way to long to get them help. Many just need a trained/licensed professional to listen and help give them guidance and getting that appointment takes way too long or the individual isn't the right person to be sitting in that position. Sorry for the long rant. I'm finishing up a career after 20 years and I have seen a massive shift in the way things were when I came in almost 20 years ago to now and I have never seen as many suicides as in the last few years (again, many weren't combat vets, but young kids). I wish there was a simple answer to fixing this, but the reality is that we all just need to be there for people and as I like to tell my kids and my Marines, make a difference in someones life and be a light because you never know what someone is going through. One small positive interaction can be the difference from someone ending their life and them feeling like they have something worth living.
I have met two women
 
One of the two subordinates I mentioned, in a previous post, was female as well.

She had a real weight problem and tried very hard to get it under control. I used to go out and run 3 miles with her, at lunch, and 5 miles after work... every week day.

When I was around her, she ate right... I don’t know about the other times.

She passed her annual Aerobics (AF PT) requirements. But, was still 5lbs over in weight.

That weekend, I got a call from Wilford Hall Med Ctr (Lackland AFB). She tried carbon monoxide.

Fortunately, her husband got home early and found her in the garage, with her car running.

She recovered, with no damage done.

Also, she spent a Few days, on a mental hold, and met two other females who tried CO as well. Both were badly damaged... both with NO short term memory.

They could no longer be left alone... neither could remember anything recent... like: that they lit a gas burner and were cooking dinner; that they were bathing their baby; etc.

She said she saw them dozens of times every day (they shared a bay in the ward). Every time, they introduced themselves to her yet again... and again.

She never promised to not try again... but, promised to not use CO again.

The AF gave her an Other than Honorable discharge, under Section 8, and, oddly, the VA gave her a disability for a hysterectomy she had in the AF... I never could understand the disability.
 
There was a survey done of prisoners and they were asked what was the worst experience Behind Bars. They said it was a solitary confinement. I don't blame them and Americans have been going through some very difficult times dealing with the Solitude of being in lockdown. Recently in Pacific Northwest veteran who had PTSD and hidden lost a leg to an IED I couldn't take the lock down anymore and you took his life. We have to have that physical Bond to have someone that cares for us and we care for someone else to talk about our issues and problems in life we have to show that we care and never put someone down or criticize them. United States has one of the highest narcissistic behavioral patterns in the world. I don't know where it's come from and I certainly didn't see it in Canada but we're having right now I Mental Health crisis in the United States. The suicide rates has gone up 30% in the United States. 60000 veterans have committed suicide since 2006. That is an astronomical mind-blowing extremely sad number.
 
This is a huge concern for me. I'm a veteran, with two veteran and disabled sons. My time in the military was very stressful, but overall a great experience. Because of this, my wife and I both encouraged our boys in going into the military after high school allowing them a way to pay for college. This is happening but what we did not expect was that BOTH would come out as 100% disabled. Our oldest son who spent 6 years in the AF was almost sucked into an operating jet engine on a KC-135. Through this, he now HATES aircraft (my love) and now has 3 severely damaged disks in his back. Depression came with his discharge.

Our youngest son did 4 years in the Army. During this time, he fought against his weight being assigned to workout daily with a Ranger to help him keep his weight down. During this continuous training, he destroyed his ankles having surgery during his time in the Army and thus discharged at the end due to his disability. Depression came.

As a father to two disabled veterans, the guilt is huge. I discharged honorably and wanted the same benefits for my kids. This issue is very dear to me as I watch closely over my own kids.
 
Solas what parts of the world have you been to? I got a high school classmate who's probably been in at least 20 or maybe 30 different countries. He works for the Peace Corps and he was often in charge of the major projects. His business title why is " Nation Builder" . He's had a pretty crazy life in his life. I saw him in a picture wearing a suit standing on top of a Russian tank with a bunch of Afghan citizens standing around the tank.
 
Thanks Danny for that post.
Do you have any insight into the reasons for the suicides? My youngest son who is both a Navy Corpsman with the SEALS with combat time and also an Army Medic who spent a year in Iraq and was in the 21 day firefight in Fallujah has the following thoughts:
Multiple tours in hostile environments
The constant stress of ship operations
Malaria pills and the multiple shots in basic training
Intelligence levels
Loss of comradeship and loss of purpose
His other questions are the leadership of the Navy and Marines which was lacking in quality.

As far as the Army, I was in heavy combat with the 101st in Vietnam and took a lot of lives flying the gunships and on the ground as well and some people have problems with this issue. So I believe a lot of guys believe they are owed something but can't put their finger on it. As soldiers, sailors or airmen our job is to lay waste to the enemy Du Jour, as that enemy changes like the wind. I had no malevolence toward any of the people I killed, it was my job. I believe mental attitude is key to surviving any event in one's life.

I find it ironic the major companies are all doing business in Vietnam and other former enemy countries.
Several years ago I was watching a documentary of finding the remains of vietcong soldiers. A Vietnam woman who is a spiritual sensitive was in the forest with camera crew. She would be talking to the spirits of Vietcong soldiers guiding her to the last place where they died. In one location the camera showed undisturbed ground buried in leaves and vines. She would cut away and clear the ground ...and started to dig. She unearthed the skeleton of the dead soldier skeleton. She repeated this at least one more time. I was really fascinated.
 

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