Stumped, no spark=no start (1 Viewer)

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Summit, do I just jump straight from B+ to FP with key on and it will energize the pump ? Sounds easier than jumping from the battery to the connector at the pump. Also, I recently purchased a new fuel filter and I can not find this to save my life. Looked all over the engine compartment and FSM ? It's the black one about 4" long and 2.5" wide.
 
Power to the FP comes from the EFI relay both when cranking the starter and after the AFM flap closes and the motor is running. The +12 from the EFI relay runs the whole show. The fact that the CE light illuminates tells me that the EFI circuit is armed and ready according to the ECU, but that doesn't tell me if there's an air gap further down the line. It's time to get into this with a volt meter and schematic. Too many things are working correctly for this not to be firing.
 
Kirk Killebrew said:
Summit, do I just jump straight from B+ to FP with key on and it will energize the pump ? Sounds easier than jumping from the battery to the connector at the pump. Also, I recently purchased a new fuel filter and I can not find this to save my life. Looked all over the engine compartment and FSM ? It's the black one about 4" long and 2.5" wide.
Click to expand...
Yes, you can jump from B+ to FP, but that "should" fire the FP with the key ON. For diagnostics it's fine, just don't drive around like that.
The fuel filter is on the inside of the passenger side frame rail below the distributor.
 
Jon, I went through your checklist; CEL on, Power to fuse block, resistance at primary and secondary coil (close to spec), resistance at dizzy pick up coils, all checked out. I also checked every fuse I could find, all checked zero resistance.

Problems I found were no spark at #1 plug nor from high tension coil wire. On the driver side of the intake I pulled the hollow bolt from the CSI (I think that is it, it had a fuel line going to it) and turned the key and no fuel pumped out ? For now, I plan to change the fuel filter, verify pump works and wait for parts to show up. I would like to check the AFM, as soon as I figure out how.

As a side note, the horn, radio and two of the electric windows are not working either, just in case these circuits are combined.
 
Just finished swapping the fuel filter. What a PITA, nasty fuel came out of it so that can only help. I jumpered the B+ and FP at the diagnostic port and nada. No fuel. Now I have the middle seats out and the cover off. I plan to jump to the connector to test before I pull the pump, just in case. I also plan on keeping all of the old electrical parts I am replacing, I am starting to think they may be good.
 
Kirk Killebrew said:
Just finished swapping the fuel filter. What a PITA, nasty fuel came out of it so that can only help. I jumpered the B+ and FP at the diagnostic port and nada. No fuel. Now I have the middle seats out and the cover off. I plan to jump to the connector to test before I pull the pump, just in case. I also plan on keeping all of the old electrical parts I am replacing, I am starting to think they may be good.
Click to expand...
Did you check for +12 on the B+ terminal on the check connector before jumping the FP?
 
Kirk Killebrew said:
I would like to check the AFM, as soon as I figure out how.
Click to expand...
There is a test procedure in the FSM, but right now the AFM is not a concern UNLESS YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE HAS SCREWED AROUND INSIDE. If it is unmolested, then leave it alone for now and lets concentrate on what the underlying problem is.
 
Will do Jon, I think I have messed with enough for today. I did pretty much confirm the pump is inop, ran wire straight from battery to the terminals at the connector, nada. I plan to pull it this weekend and confirm. At least it will give me an opportunity to clean things up and replace the sock. I am almost positive this thing has never been changed in 24 years. I am finding prices all over the map for a replacement. Any brands to avoid ? Having owned many diesels, I know how important good fuel and a good pump are.
 
OK, fuel pump checks out, now I am waiting on the igniter to show up. Should be today, we need this vehicle back on the road
 
I want to thank everyone who has chimed in to lend a hand. :)

My parts came in, just installed them and still no start. I am definitely getting a spark now as the engine is stumbling, she is really close. I wonder if I jumped time on my last trip out as it was backfiring a bit. I have not touched the dizzy while doing this recent work but wonder if I should loosen the set bolt and try to work it around until she fires ? It definitely feels like it is out of time. I

I am charging the battery back up now and plan to look at it again fresh, later tonight. Hopefully with some help from the fellow mud haters.

Thanks Again,
Kirk
 
Update, tried shorting FP circuit at diagnostic port. Also tried moving the dizzy to different positions. No luck. Same deal, get an initial running spark and it dies off within two seconds. Looking thru the archives, I started to think it was AFM (which is why I hot wired the FP).

Next I will pull the air cleaner hose and confirm it is getting air. I'm just about done throwing $ at this thing. Since it appears I am talking to myself, I will now use this thread to keep track of all my sweat and progress (or lack thereof). Maybe one day, someone will get a laugh out of it.

Getting more and more ready to pull this iron pig out and put in something simple.
 
How did you go from "I did pretty much confirm the pump is inop, ran wire straight from battery to the terminals at the connector, nada" to "OK, fuel pump checks out"? Have you confirmed the fuel pump delivers plenty of fuel to the fuel rail by jumping +B to FP in the diagnostic connector? At one point you said you tried that and didn't get fuel. Spark but no fuel equals no start, so you need to verify jumping +B to FP delivers fuel.

No offense, but you seem to be jumping around all over the place. It's been 1) no spark, 2) no fuel, 3) "timing jumped" (whatever that means), 4) bad AFM. Slow down a little and follow the advice that folks like Jon Held are providing you.
 
No offense taken. Obviously this troubleshooting adventure has me troubled and I feel like shooting the truck.

I put direct from battery power to the connector inside the cabin under the floorplate to the pump. I could not hear it pumping and assumed it was inop. Couple days later I pulled it and put power to it and it pumped. My filter was nasty and could have been totally clogged ? I now have good pressure at the CSI so I once again assume I can rule out fuel ? I did jump FP to B+ and get battery voltage, so I tried it while starting and nothing, same thing, diesels over a second and then back to cranking.

SO far I have ; Checked resistance at: Pickup coils, main and secondary coils, all fuses and igniter.
Replaced; igniter, coil, EFI relay, fuel filter, and air valve
Pulled and looked at or adjusted; CSI (1st time a drop of fuel, 2nd time plenty), Diz cap (looked good but I did not check air gap (no feeler gauge) but the gap looked to be 0.2 to 0.4mm by the eye, FWIW)

I have been jumping around on this thing since day one, when it left me stranded on a bridge. I thought, it must be the EFI relay, it's a common problem, so I bought one and installed it, nada. Had it towed home and pulled up Jon's guide and feel like I have followed it checking values on the starting circuit. You're right, I need to slow down and pull out that guide again and check everything one more time.

I'm at a loss
 
So just to confirm, if you loosen the banjo bolt on the cold start injector and jumper FP to B+ a bunch of fuel spills out for as long as the jumper is in place?
 
So since it was last was running have you removed the distributor?
 
TrickyT said:
So just to confirm, if you loosen the banjo bolt on the cold start injector and jumper FP to B+ a bunch of fuel spills out for as long as the jumper is in place?
Click to expand...
No Tricky, I just checked fuel pressure at the CSI after trying to crank it for a bit. I knew I would need to fill the filter and lines and possibly crack off an air lock. It shot fuel out, no air. I have 12+ at the Diagnostic points and confirmed visually the pump works. I will try what you are saying and make sure it is receiving the orders when the F and B+ are shorted.


Alleycats - It ran like crap all morning until it stranded me on the bridge and hour or so later. I replaced the EFI relay and then moved on to the coil when that didn't work. It took some doing but then started with the new coil. Cool, I went for a test ride. I went a mile or two down the road and it started sputtering again and I barely made it home after it stalled out on me once along the way. I returned that coil and replaced with a new one. That resulted in no start and she has been in the barn since. And no, I did not removed the distributor but did loosen the retainer bolt and adjust hoping for an ear tune to at least start. No luck there either
 
This sounds to me like you may have a bad connection or electrical short. I would visually inspect all connectors at the coil, ignighter, distributor and AFM.

I feel your pain...good luck.
 
You mentioned your filter was nasty and you changed it. Did you change the fuel sock in the tank? I have experienced fuel related problems due to an old fuel sock that appeared ok. Fuel pressure and flow is very important to a fuel injected engine and it starts with the sock/strainer.
 
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