Strange oil problem I have never seen..... (2 Viewers)

[ghosttowner]

I got an oil change to my 1997 rig on October 13th at K&H Imports, but a week ago the oil light came on, which was unusually early. Never happened before. I was amidst a busy schedule, so I just poured a quart of oil as I normally do and went about my business. Today, I made plans to drive to the Mojave desert to watch the Geminids meteor shower 125 miles away, but to my dismay, the oil light comes on AGAIN this evening. I haven't seen any unusually heavy oil drips on the garage floor to warrant that. Just the normal drips that I have seen for the last 3 years with this truck. I also notice the temp in the Ultragauge rise to 194°, a little higher than the normal of 188°. I shrug, stop the truck, and decide to pour a quart of oil, again, within a week.

Here is what was strange when I took off the oil filler cap. The motor oil looked topped off almost all the way to the brim. I have NEVER seen it that high. So I pour just a few drops to visually ascertain the level, and yes, it is above normal, and there is movement in the oil. I refrain from adding any more oil and start up the truck. The Ultragauge comes on, it shows 190° but it immediately starts to drop and settles at 186.4°. Below the usual temperature of 188.4°, where it stays pegged faithfully for 95% of the time. Outside temp at the time was 60°. I did not recheck the oil level after this temp drop, but it stayed at this low level for about 10 more minutes of me driving around the neighborhood. But, what gives? Has anyone experienced this odd behavior with their engines? Should I worry? Any word of advise?

I am not sure I can risk driving 250 miles to and fro to watch the meteor shower tonight with this oddity. What a bummer! If it was my too-tough-to-die 1992 LC, I would have ignored and driven it, and the rig would have happily frolicked in the desert without a complain. But this 1997 is too dainty for such rough handling, methinks.

 

[Travis 76]

Is the oil really full up to the valve cover, my 94 takes a quart or 2 a month, and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it from Vegas to LA, or farther.
If there is oil up to the valve cover it needs to be drained.

 

[Dave 2000]

Use the dipstick, get a proper reading after standing about 5 minutes. Never rely on the warning light.

If your engine really is full of oil then serious damage is only a moment away.

Regards

Dave

 

[LINUS]

I'm a little concerned I never saw the word ::::dipstick:::: -anywhere in that post.

Have you just been relying on the low oil sensor & dumping quarts?

If so, yeah - you're prob ___ qts over & your oil sensor is hung up / connection is bad.

 

[Landseer]

Ok, silly question, theres a piece of sheet metal right under the oil fill cap that covers half of the hole, is it possible there was just a small amount of oil pooled on this? Filling a 1FZ-FE all the way to the fill port would be a hell of a lot of oil.

 

[ghosttowner]

Yes, it looked like it was above the metal piece that covers half of the hole. I am going to check it again now to see if the oil is still that high or if it has settled down. However, the engine will be cold at this point. Should I warm it up a bit first? It has been standing for a couple of hours now. I can drain some with a turkey baster if it is that high. The last time I put the quart in, I did not do a dipstick check, my bad. But I can do it now and see where it is.

I have only dumped a quart in it when it read low on the sensor. That was a week ago. Today, I put almost none soon as I saw the level looked unusually high. A few drops just to see the ripple and make certain that was really oil I am looking at.

 

[Travis 76]

If you can pull oil out with a turkey baster you have like an extra couple gallons of oil.
Pull your dip stick, is it coated all the way up.
Get a few big buckets and pull your drain plug and start over. Should only need around 8 quarts to fill.

 

[Granite Grinder]

Oil is best checked on the dipstick after the engine has been turned off for 5 minutes or so. This allows the oil in head to drain to the pan

 

[Travis 76]

I would not start the engine with that much oil in it.

 

[ghosttowner]

Thanks everyone for trying to help me with this.

I just went out and took a picture of the oil level. It looks high, as you can see in the image below, and perhaps a tad higher with a heated engine. Outside temp is 53° right now, and the engine was cool to the touch. I started the truck up and let the temp climb to 106° and checked the dip stick, and guess what? It read low. Very low. Maybe the engine isn't hot enough for full circulation at 106°? Five minutes later I checked again, and this time it shows bone dry on the dipstick. I looked under the chassis to see if there was any oil spill. None! Something is weird. I don't remember ever seeing oil over that metal piece through the filler hole, and I have never seen dipstick read zero oil. I will have to deal with this mystery first thing tomorrow morning.

There goes the meteor shower. How I miss that hardy mule, the 3FE, in times like this!

 

[LINUS]

Ok, silly question, theres a piece of sheet metal right under the oil fill cap that covers half of the hole, is it possible there was just a small amount of oil pooled on this? Filling a 1FZ-FE all the way to the fill port would be a hell of a lot of oil.

It's been posted before - that casting shape caught another guy offguard in the last year.

And yes - just dead reckoning volume to flat fill a motor I'd bet in the 1.5+ gal range over the full mark on the dipstick. Seems you could fit ~3qt just under the valve coverlet alone the oil to get there. *****Hand Grenade Math/user beware*****

If you really are going to run off that low level sensor (never knew anybody to do that, seems a bad idea IMO) - you really ought to make sure that lil' fooker is right.

I'm for keeping the dipstick top-marked, figure out your use to low-mark & add more by miles that way (personal opinion, 100%).

Or just dip it every other fillup, heck - we have hood shocks so not like you even have to fumble a hood prop-rod.

 

[ghosttowner]

I have been driving the truck for the last week since dumping a quart of oil after a low level warning. I have a habit of keeping my eye on the Ultragauge and haven't seen any foul reading to alarm me. It only came to my attention after the low level indicator came on again tonight and noticed the temp was at 194°. But it wasn't climbing any higher. I happened to be in a parking lot and decided to tend to the low oil level. In any case, I didn't add any oil, except for a few drops. But on starting her up, the coolant temp dropped to 186, normal on a cold night at normal speed, and stayed there. Makes no sense to me.

Stupid question, is the oil level supposed to look like that? Another one, did it show dry on the dipstick because it was cold?

 

[ghosttowner]

Linus, you have a point. It was definitely foolish of me to pour in a whole quart of oil without checking the dipstick, no matter how pressed for time. I know if it was an aircraft, I wouldn't just add oil without checking the dipstick and risk engine failure when airborne. Won't happen again, even though this truck is firmly bound to terra firma, I assure you.

Could it be that the oil sensor is going bad? That never crossed my mind. Such is my confidence in these rigs

 

[LINUS]

Could it be that the oil sensor is going bad? That never crossed my mind. Such is my confidence in these rigs

Pure speculation on my part (clearly you know your 80 & what's up) - maybe you weren't getting oil on the temp sender (not sure how Scanguage pulls it, off the ECU or if the 2 motor temp senders or ???)

But point being maybe you were low enough not to have oil on where it pulls the temp to feed the Scanguage? ::::again, speculation::::

I'd personally get your oil to a verified 'full' just to the top of the dipstick crosshatches - then see what temp the Scanguage reads. Decide if the temp seems reasonable & proceed from there.

Since you are Scanguaged, did you by any chance do the Ravantai coolant temp guage mod (gets rid of deadzone, makes needle more active)?

If so, has your motor oil temp had any influence on your overall operating temp?

Not that I'd expect it, we do run 2gallon oilpans & even a dry stick I would think is short of 3qts shy in the pan.

 

[I Lean]

Check the dipstick with the engine off. If you check while it's running, it will read low.

 

[ghosttowner]

I did check the oil after shutting the engine off, once it got to 106° F. I waited a couple of minutes before pulling out the dipstick, and it read low. There was just a tiny bit at the very end of the stick. Five minutes later, engine even cooler, dipstick came out dry. I did that a few times to make sure I am seeing it right. That's why I looked under the truck to see if oil had somehow drained out. But there was nothing at all.

Should I let it warm up to a normal level first, like 150°+ , shut down for a few minutes and then check? Although, as Travis 76 said, I am worried about causing any damage.

 

[lastresort576]

I'm dumbfounded that you'd just add oil without checking your dipstick....But I'll leave it at that.
Put your truck up on jack stands, get a 5gallon bucket and a 14mm socket and drain it all out. Start fresh with which ever oil you run. Once youre back to normalcy with your oil level's then trouble shoot the light and the dry dip stick..

1. Are you sure that youre pushing the dip stick all the way into the tube? That matters.
2. For reference in case you fill it up and still don't show any oil level on the dip stick. These engines hold 8qt's of oil. This doesn't mean you should add 8 right off the bat. Pour in a 5qt jug right off the bat, or if using Rotella pour in 2gallons(about 6qts I think and will get you on the dip stick)..the make your finishing pour checking the dip stick as you go making sure not to overfill it again.
3. I wouldn't be so concerned about the engine Temps. The engine is either cold or around operating temp. Really doesn't affect much in between.
4. Make sure you have the correct oil filter...Some times if it threads on a shop will use it instead of the correct one. And don't use an extra capacity one either cuz that can throw things off for you as well.

As for the light it's time to start ignoring that until you figure it out.

 

[LINUS]

Yes, the way the 80 dipstick routes when I have the time around the house I let the engine warm & then kill it, pull the dipstick & wipe it/ leave it out & wait the 4-5mins.

I do that because of that funky 's' bend where for me I can always get an oil smear on the dipstick 2-3" above the crosshatches otherwise.

Edit - no dipstick in lets the tube drain oil better, why I do that -/Edit

I remember it took awhile to get to where I do all the little crap/idiosyncrasies I do with my 80 & I think I take it for granted now as just my SOP.

 

[Rifleman]

If your oil temp gauge is correct, and your running in the 180 to 200 degree range, and your worried that, that may be to hot, here's some info you might find helpful.

Quaker State engineer Mark Farner spoke to Hot Rod Magzine about what goes into this new generation of synthetic engine oils and what kind of advantages they promise. Synthetic engine oil has always enjoyed a reputation both for its high-pressure lubrication performance and also its ability to withstand much higher engine oil temperatures than conventional petroleum-based oil. Conventional oils will tolerate engine oil sump temperatures of up to 250 to as much as 275 degrees F without difficulty. According to Farner, oils like Quaker State’s full synthetics can easily withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees F, and he says that some oval track race teams are experimenting with temperatures as high as 350 degrees F.

For a typical wet-sump engine, 300 degrees F is still extremely hot, but Farner says that synthetics, because of their molecular makeup, are better suited to withstand these temperatures. The downside is that additive packages do tend to break down faster in high-temperature environments, so if you plan on running oil temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, this would mean changing the oil after every track event regardless of the mileage.

For street engines that do not suffer this kind of track-day abuse, merely pouring in a synthetic does not mean that you can radically extend service drain intervals. Petroleum-based oils do not lose their base lubrication characteristics, what does suffer with use are the additive packages added to the oil. Synthetics are no different. Engines that see only limited use and ones that may never get up to full operating temperature can suffer from high levels of contamination that will require shorter drain intervals.

For example, Farner says that for every pound of fuel burned in an engine, the combustion process also creates a pound of water. Some of this water will eventually end up in the oil pan. If the engine rarely sees sump temperatures that exceed 212 degrees F (water’s boiling point), the water quickly mixes with another combustion byproduct–sulfur–to create acids that can eventually eat bearings if the oil is not drained.

Here's a link to the complete Hot Rod Magazine story.
Synthetic Oil Technology - Car Craft Magazine

 

[ghosttowner]

Linus, I am not sure if the oil temp contributed to the overall temp increase. It may have. I can only read the coolant temp with the Ultragauge (mine is not a ScanGauge). I don't think the Ultragauge can even read oil temps. I panicked when I noticed the oil level in the engine was so high, while the low oil light was telling me otherwise. And the quick drop in engine temperature after putting back the filler cap made it worse.

As Travis 76 suggested, I will do a whole new oil change and see if it remedies whatever caused this anomaly.