Stolen CATs

[Patron100LC]

Updated thread title since it isn’t real time anymore, still waiting on the insurance company, got a loaner from a friend that has too many cars and looking for a replacement without rushing.

Finally had some time to investigate the damage properly, put it on our job’s lift and snapped some pics of the crime scene.

The thieves cut the muffler flange on the passenger side, and took it with them attached to the cat, I guess a muffler shop can fabricate the missing tube and flange right? The muffler still solid and quiet.

 

[Africaster]

You may want to consider insisting that the fabricators recreate using EXACTLY the same measurement specs as OEM … if not, component replacements down the road won’t be a simple bolt-off/bolt-on … although looking at the lack of rust on your truck, doesn’t look like you have the same perpetual cancer battle that we have on the NE coast.

 

[SaturnAscends]

What would be the concern about driving it like this?

 

[awesomeissquid]

What would be the concern about driving it like this?

Without the exhaust pipe connected the concerns are the high temperature exhaust hitting everything under the vehicle that was not designed for those operating temperatures and also the toxic fumes getting into the passenger compartment.

 

[FrankieJoe14]

Its quite loud.

On the Tundra pages, someone's truck supposedly caught fire. If that happens and insurance finds out you purposely drove without cats, well, they can deny claims

I know this all sounds crazy but its at least a concern.

 

[SaturnAscends]

Without the exhaust pipe connected the concerns are the high temperature exhaust hitting everything under the vehicle that was not designed for those operating temperatures and also the toxic fumes getting into the passenger compartment.

I understand the high temp concerns but would the fumes really enter the cabin from under the truck? I’d think they’d just blow out from under the vehicle, at least on the highway.

Around here there’s no inspections so you’ll see a lot of cars with loud and broken exhaust driving around, even some trucks with open headers.

 

[Patron100LC]

You may want to consider insisting that the fabricators recreate using EXACTLY the same measurement specs as OEM … if not, component replacements down the road won’t be a simple bolt-off/bolt-on … although looking at the lack of rust on your truck, doesn’t look like you have the same perpetual cancer battle that we have on the NE coast.

Thanks.
Even without rust, exhaust systems are always a pain to deal with when hardware starts corroding.

What would be the concern about driving it like this?

Besides the issues mentioned above..
I remember when I used to tune VW buggies there was this myth, or fact, that the exhaust gasses escape the chambers faster if they have a tube designed to specs based on calculations made with chamber size, valve size, expected rpm, and you build the desired length and diameter of the exhaust system, and if you’re wrong you might not remove the gasses quickly enough and start burning valves.
Obviously this isn’t the main issue, noise and harmful gasses are.

Now, our V8 does sound mean without an exhaust gotta tell you! It’ll make a great racing engine if it didn’t have to carry 3T of metal around.

 

[SaturnAscends]

Thanks.
Even without rust, exhaust systems are always a pain to deal with when hardware starts corroding.


Besides the issues mentioned above..
I remember when I used to tune VW buggies there was this myth, or fact, that the exhaust gasses escape the chambers faster if they have a tube designed to specs based on calculations made with chamber size, valve size, expected rpm, and you build the desired length and diameter of the exhaust system, and if you’re wrong you might not remove the gasses quickly enough and start burning valves.
Obviously this isn’t the main issue, noise and harmful gasses are.

Now, our V8 does sound mean without an exhaust gotta tell you! It’ll make a great racing engine if it didn’t have to carry 3T of metal around.

I was just wondering how those harmful gases would be getting into the cabin from under the truck though. If it was me I’d be tempted to limp it home as is. Anyway I’m glad you were able to find a solution and I wish you luck getting a replacement.

 

[Patron100LC]

I was just wondering how those harmful gases would be getting into the cabin from under the truck though. If it was me I’d be tempted to limp it home as is. Anyway I’m glad you were able to find a solution and I wish you luck getting a replacement.

I guess pretty easy, our vehicles aren’t 100% hermetic.

I wouldn’t drive more than a mile or two this way. Specially with kids in the car.

Ended up ordering Walker Cats, should arrive this week, then I’ll have to take it to a shop for installation since the crackhead that took my cats messed up my muffler side of the flange too.

Got 2 denso sniffers for the downstream and some other miscellaneous gaskets and nuts from partsouq to make sure the job is being done right. I’ll take it to a place that’s right next door to my wife’s office, she knows the owner’s wife and that might give me access to the shop while they’re doing the installation to keep an eye on them.

Not that I Don’t trust them ;(.

Ended up paying $1000 for two cats, two sensors and shipping from Rockauto. And an additional $60 or so in small stuff from the UAE. (Including some small items I like to replace on every front wheel bearing service since it’s due in a few miles)

My insurance company is still playing dumb with the numbers so when I’ll take the car to the shop I’ll upload a receipt of everything and see how that plays out.

 

[TreatSmash]

This is happening so much I feel like I should just cut mine out and sell them.

 

[Patron100LC]

This is happening so much I feel like I should just cut mine out and sell them.

I was thinking the same, too bad it's too late now. But if you're ready for it, do it, our cats are old, I'm sure that unless they've been replaced sometime in the vehicle's past, most of us have close (or over) 200k miles in them, so eventually they'll need to be replaced anyway. Better do it in the comfort of your garage and tool box as a planned mod, not as an emergency repair.

Just installed the new Walkers. The only reason I didn't delete is because if in the future I'd like to sell the LC, I might have issues. In FL there's no inspections, but there's still a law against selling a car that's cat-less. And FL market isn't as hot as northern states for 4wd cars anyway.

The shop that installed them fought with the remaining pieces of flange to manifold for hours, broke a few studs, 275k miles is a lot of heat cycles for an exhaust bolt, even on a rust free car.

For those thinking you can drive without any exhaust system, don't even try it. The 2 miles from my job to the muffler shop were painful! The whole thing vibrates, the sound is awful, the smell is horrendous, and the torque is Gone! No torque at all. Pressing the skinny pedal just makes noise, not movement.

To conclude this thread, not really happy with having to go aftermarket with the CATs, but that saved me over $1500. Would have preferred to go OEM but if I did I would have been really paranoid about where I park, and that would have removed the joy of ownership. Hope that if in the future somebody goes under the truck and sees an aftermarket cat he will move on. CAT protection is available, but not 100% effective.
Hope the Walker Cats will last and not rot and crumble too soon. Also hope that new cats and sensors will improve my mpg to upset some of the cost.

The insurance company passed an initial settlement that was ridiculous, the adjuster that came in put in the report that it needs only 1 catalytic, and that any shop should charge $85/hr, when in south FL everyone charges double that, sent the receipts and waiting on an adjustment of the claim to see if somehow I'll get closer to the real cost.

To those who still have OEM cats, protect them NOW! Either shield them with a belly pan or skid, paint them yellow, remove and install something else, but don't think that it won't happen to you. That's what I thought, and it backfired in a bad way. It happened in the worst place at the worst time.

 

[TreatSmash]

I'm gonna go paint mine red to match my springs.

 

[jayLC1]

So my truck went into a muffler shop up here in the mountains of NC where I live for a new muffler and came out MISSING THE OE CATS and a couple of aftermarket CATS were welded in (there should be TWO on each side). As a result I get the code P0420.

The issue is that the code turns off EVERY bit of traction control the second it's below 70 degrees. I live in the mountains where there is tons of MUD in the winter and it's a big issue. Those that think it's better without TRAC are sadly mistaken.

I have made an insurance claim and they quoted $2500 (aftermarket) and tell me they will only put on OE if the shop requests. I am going to look into having a shop request this.

Here is my quandary - shops are months behind and the parts are hard to get. I am thinking in that it's a 2004 and I have SOME cats I just want to delete that code. I will push for the insurance to pay out the lost value (this is fair) of the OE cats and I will roll the dollars into new tires and a timing belt I need replaced.

Anyone have ideas on the delete part? I have heard about adding a resistor and also putting a fitting on to pull the O2 sensor back and make it not send errors.

MY BIGGEST CONCERN HOWEVER - I am getting 11.5 mpg since the theft! I am told the O2 sensors are making it run too rich. Any ideas?

 

[Patron100LC]

OP here.

Starting from the end, P0420 can be caused by several issues as I understand. The sensor itself being faulty, the cat being plugged or not efficient, bad fuel/air ratios like vacuum leaks or faulty injectors, even contaminants from oil or coolant burning will affect the cat's performance. You can foul the computer by extending the bong where the sensor sits and getting it out of direct flow, but that's not a solution to the issue, that's just to cheat the computer into thinking all is ok when it isn't. Several threads everywhere about fouling the o2 sensor.

Back to the beginning though. You went into a muffler shop with your original cats, and without being informed, you left with aftermarkets? And your insurance company bought that? AND they're willing to pay 4 times what a standard cat install is quoted at a muffler shop if the shop of YOUR choice recommends that?? I'm not a detective, but that sounds fishy.. I need your insurance info please! Considering switching soon, and that sounds like a place to be.

 

[Patron100LC]

I'm gonna go paint mine red to match my springs.View attachment 3116508

Show off!



BTW, my new Walker cats are rattling already on cold starts, and when I say cold, it's South FL cold, meaning 70 deg cold. Didn't have time to go under and see if it's internal, or a shield, but it pisses me off knowing that I probably should have spent the additional $$ to go oem. MADE IN CHI$#^%&^%$$

 

[dbfw]

Show off!



BTW, my new Walker cats are rattling already on cold starts, and when I say cold, it's South FL cold, meaning 70 deg cold. Didn't have time to go under and see if it's internal, or a shield, but it pisses me off knowing that I probably should have spent the additional $$ to go oem. MADE IN CHI$#^%&^%$$

I haven't 100% narrowed it down yet, but I'm strongly suspecting my "OEM grade" Magnaflow cat is rattling on cold start at one year old as well. One of mine was stolen, the other partially cut so I have one OE and one aftermarket. The rattle only comes from the side with the aftermarket...surprise. OEM cats discontinued and none available for 98-02 trucks, so tough sledding for us.

Does anyone know if there's any possibility of adapting 03-05 cats to an earlier truck? I assume the 06-07 VVTIs may be substantially different animals, but anyone know what changed exhaust wise between 02 and 03?

 

[okoverland]

So my truck went into a muffler shop up here in the mountains of NC where I live for a new muffler and came out MISSING THE OE CATS and a couple of aftermarket CATS were welded in (there should be TWO on each side). As a result I get the code P0420.

The issue is that the code turns off EVERY bit of traction control the second it's below 70 degrees. I live in the mountains where there is tons of MUD in the winter and it's a big issue. Those that think it's better without TRAC are sadly mistaken.

I have made an insurance claim and they quoted $2500 (aftermarket) and tell me they will only put on OE if the shop requests. I am going to look into having a shop request this.

Here is my quandary - shops are months behind and the parts are hard to get. I am thinking in that it's a 2004 and I have SOME cats I just want to delete that code. I will push for the insurance to pay out the lost value (this is fair) of the OE cats and I will roll the dollars into new tires and a timing belt I need replaced.

Anyone have ideas on the delete part? I have heard about adding a resistor and also putting a fitting on to pull the O2 sensor back and make it not send errors.

MY BIGGEST CONCERN HOWEVER - I am getting 11.5 mpg since the theft! I am told the O2 sensors are making it run too rich. Any ideas?

Did you ask the shop where your OE cats were? I'd be calling the police instead of my insurance company.

 

[jayLC1]

Did you ask the shop where your OE cats were? I'd be calling the police instead of my insurance company.

The shop simply claims they know nothing about it. It's a long story but the truck was in and out of that fab shop a year. Front and back bumpers, swingout, extra battery, UCAs, Shocks, torsion bars, Diff drop and rear heavy springs. He has all kinds of friends that borrow his shop too. he can simply claim ignorance. Small town cops don't have time to chase the cold trail of cats that may have been stolen 6 m ago. I ONLY knew when it got cold as he welded on replacements.

I told the insurance company what happened quite up-front and the estimator said that it does not really matter to them "who" did it as most are never recovered. Apparently Prius Cats are the mother load so ALL Toyotas have become targets.

 

[jayLC1]

OP here.

Starting from the end, P0420 can be caused by several issues as I understand. The sensor itself being faulty, the cat being plugged or not efficient, bad fuel/air ratios like vacuum leaks or faulty injectors, even contaminants from oil or coolant burning will affect the cat's performance. You can foul the computer by extending the bong where the sensor sits and getting it out of direct flow, but that's not a solution to the issue, that's just to cheat the computer into thinking all is ok when it isn't. Several threads everywhere about fouling the o2 sensor.

Back to the beginning though. You went into a muffler shop with your original cats, and without being informed, you left with aftermarkets? And your insurance company bought that? AND they're willing to pay 4 times what a standard cat install is quoted at a muffler shop if the shop of YOUR choice recommends that?? I'm not a detective, but that sounds fishy.. I need your insurance info please! Considering switching soon, and that sounds like a place to be.

Progressive. They are running cat replacements on Toyotas every day now as the Prius cats are expensive. I mentioned on another reply, the insurance simply sees it as random vandalism and don't seem concerned if someone is caught. The guy told me like when cars get keyed, it's rare someone is caught.

 

[Africaster]

Progressive. They are running cat replacements on Toyotas every day now as the Prius cats are expensive. I mentioned on another reply, the insurance simply sees it as random vandalism and don't seem concerned if someone is caught. The guy told me like when cars get keyed, it's rare someone is caught.

I'm thinking on doing some kind of trick and leaving the cats as is (he put some kind of small cats on) and rolling the insurance settlement into some tires and plates.

Probably not something you should really post on an open interweb forum … and personally not something I’d encourage my kids to do. Good luck.